Most Useless Feat

[MDSnowman]

I do. I think every fighter should take Iron Will.

Yeah Iron will is nearly a requirement anyone with a poor will save.... being stuck with the ability to mow through all the enemies in the world with a poor will save is just as good as wearing a sign around your neck that says "Dominate me"

 

[jmucchiello]

I do. I think every fighter should take Iron Will.

I've never seen that +2 as effective as Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Etc. By the time I'd get around to Iron Will, I'd have a Cloak of Resistance +2 already. But then I don't play strictly fighter types too often.

One of my players takes Toughness with almost every fighter he plays at first level.

 

[Ab0b0]

the maligned toughness.

Toughness is decent for 1st level wizards. Why not a house rule where toughness gives 3hp and +1 on fort saves. It would then be pretty good for 1st level characters who have low hp and fort saves. Also keep in mind that if someone is playing a character with average or below stats, they could have a -1 or worse for CON. If they only have a d4 or d6 for hp, toughness is more than a level's worth of hp.

 

[Michael Morris]

So basically you've made Toughness the same as Improved Toughness. Do you still allow characters to take it more than once?

No, this version can only be taken once. And Improved Toughness? Must not be in the core, cause I've never heard of it.

 

[demiurge1138]

Improved Toughness is from the Complete Warrior.

Demiurge out.

 

[reveal]

No, this version can only be taken once. And Improved Toughness? Must not be in the core, cause I've never heard of it.

Improved Toughness, from the Complete Warrior, gives you a number of additional hit points equal to your current HD and an extra hit point at each subsequent level.

 

[Taneel BrightBlade]

Ever thought of what a 20con dwarf fighter who took nothing but toughness, improved toughness and con increases HP could be a level 20? 231-411!
just my 1.83526480 cents

 

[CyberSpyder]

Play a grim 'n' gritty campaign and see how you like Toughness then. At the very least it is equal to three levels of hit points.

Actually, that would be at the very most.

 

[sledged]

Ever thought of what a 20con dwarf fighter who took nothing but toughness, improved toughness and con increases HP could be a level 20? 231-411!
just my 1.83526480 cents

how did you come up with 231-411?

10 (1st level max hp)
19-190 (1-10 hp/level for levels 2-20)
20 (ITough)
140 (7/level for 25 con)
21 (7 Tough feats)
subtotal = 210-381 (295.5 average)
60 more (+6 con item)
40 more (rune of Rightous Might)
total = 310-481 (395.5)

Make it a dwarven barbarian instead:

12
19-228
20
140
18 (6 Tough feats)
subtotal = 209-418 (313.5 average) rage 289-498 (393.5)
60
40
total = 309-518 (413.5) rage 389-598 (498.5)

Even if you look at it from these perspectives, 18 to 21 hp is still looks like a waste of 6 or 7 feats. And it only looks worse as you go into epic levels.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

21 (7 Tough feats)

Why're you only giving him 7 Toughnesses? (8, including Improved Toughness.) By my count he can have 17 of 'em. (18, including Improved Toughness.)

1st (Improved Toughness), 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 12th, 12th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 18th, 18th, 20th.

So that's:

10 (1st level max hp)
19-190 (1-10 hp/level for levels 2-20, average 104.5)
20 (Improved Toughness)
140 (7/level for 25 con)
51 (17 Tough feats)

For a total of 240 to 411 hit points (average 325.5).

Ladies and gentlemen, meet the most boring D&D character ever created.