D&D 5E Much ado about a little something?

[Warpiglet-7]

I like to challenge conventional wisdom and evaluate things for myself. Sometimes I am right, other times…not.

I was thinking about playing a cleric/Paladin as a pc. If I dm for my kids( I thought about a character who is a combat medic sort that blesses and fights when necessary (I.e. helps prevent TPK while the kids are learning).

So I look at starting cleric vs Paladin. D8 vs d10. Not a big difference. Or is it?

At level 20 (which I have never seen!) we are talking about 21 hit points, con being equal.

Yet all the blogs make a big distinction between “tanking” with a d10 vs d8. I am not seeing it.

I also don’t use terms like “ranking” and realize I am a bit of a traditionalist. Ok non WOW player. Whatever.

But math is math.

d8 vs. d10. Big deal or overblown?

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Overblown. A nice application of Aid or THP spells and you are all set.
Some spells are pretty good for tanking: spirit guardian, spike growth (nature cleric) etc

And might I suggest Order clerics or War? Granting attacks when healing a player or throwing +10s to help someone land an attack is pretty nice and dont steal the spotlight of players.

 

[pointofyou]

Looking purely at hit point totals yes the difference is overblown. I think if I were going to be drawing fire I would prefer to be a paladin than a cleric but that's more about other edge-case type things.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Overblown. A nice application of Aid or THP spells and you are all set.
Some spells are pretty good for tanking: spirit guardian, spike growth (nature cleric) etc

And might I suggest Order clerics or War? Granting attacks when healing a player or throwing +10s to help someone land an attack is pretty nice and dont steal the spotlight of players.

I NEVER thought of this!

How is this? If you are a Paladin gear cleric you could heal someone AND SMITE

No if it is an npc the goal is to hang back and smooth things.

Now if I am a pc I do like my pals and wreck house just like they do

 

[Vaalingrade]

Yet all the blogs make a big distinction between “tanking” with a d10 vs d8. I am not seeing it.

I also don’t use terms like “ranking” and realize I am a bit of a traditionalist.

Tanking means you are purposefully putting yourself in the position to get hit in place of others. Every HP counts because you aren't getting the benefit of hiding behind someone else doing this for you.

Also remember that that d10 is your HD as well; ie how much you get back when spending that HD, so it's more than 21 HD over time. And that's real healing, not the sad combat healing the cleric offers if they're not Twilight.

The choice here is more about whether you want to solve problems with spells or with hitting things really hard while preventing damage to the other players. As a DMPC, it's always best to opt for the latter as it is less likely to upstage the other players.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

How is this? If you are a Paladin gear cleric you could heal someone AND SMITE

I'd be cautious with DM PC and smites: they are pretty strong and a huge incentive to spend slots on something other than support, which was the goal of this character.

I could also suggest a Battlemaster with support maneuvers and protective FS. Use your actions to grapple and create opportunities for your group, taking Healer and Leader as feats to boost your support abilities.

Another possibility could be an Expert sidekick with the Healer and Leader feats: at-will improved help actions and a few support features could be a big game changer for a beginning group.

 

[Charlaquin]

One hit die size isn’t a huge difference, but it also isn’t no difference. All else being equal, a Paladin will be able to survive a little more damage than a Cleric, which makes them a little better suited for being a “tank.” That said, if you want to tank as a cleric, it’ll probably be fine. You’ll probably want to pick a domain that gives heavy armor proficiency and use a shield. And you might want to consider taking the Tough feat or something to make up the difference in HP. But even if you don’t, you’ll most likely be fine.

 

[payn]

In general, I think things like this are overblown. Though, there are contextual points that make it matter as demonstrated in the thread.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

On the topic of tanking, a con bonus is much bigger than a die size.
For a DM PC cleric I would go stuff like Spirit Guardians and Dodge and play a more passive support style. Not sure I would go for a Pally for DMPC, Pallys are very in your face nova damage types.

 

[Charlaquin]

On the topic of tanking, a con bonus is much bigger than a die size.

How do you figure? An increase in hit due size is a +1 HP per level and to the average amount healed when spending hit dice on average, same as +1 Con mod. I’d say they should be valued equally.