Multi-property magic items

[Hadrian the Builder]

Well, the OP did specifically mention properties, not powers, and most powers are limited by the milestone & tier limitations.

Since you asked for 3E-inspired ideas...Weapons of Legacy
i started a 3E campaign that was centered around those ideas and I have had to adapt it to 4E, so several of my players have multi-property items.
To maintain some control and balance, I've broken up the powers and properties into 3 tiers (just like WoL) and established a ritual at each tier that requires X gp residuum. Effectively, this means that players have to disenchant other treasure to activate the next tier, and that tends to leave other slots unused.
So far, I have not had a problem with my players being unhappy about the arrangement or with it breaking the game.
I've left out alot of details on this to keep this short, but you get the basic idea.

 

[DracoSuave]

True, but again, look at Vorpal as an example. And as well, the flaming and lightning weapons' powers that matter are at-will free actions, so it's not like you can't consider them properties

 

[monboesen]

It would be nice with a general rule that allowed their existence, even if not their creation. Zapp

I don't think it wouldn't be nice with a general rule that allowed this. The idea that properties can be combined in that way stems from 3ed and it was a bad idea even then leading to mindboggling +1 weapons of flame, frost, acid, lightning.


So WOTC please leave such special weapons to the individuals DM's discretion and don't ever write any official rules on the matter.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

My dear Doctor, a simple "no" would suffice. ;-)

This isn't supposed to be a thread about how Flaming Berserk Axes should be allowed, or anything.

It is (primarily) a thread asking where these rather obvious (if I may say so) combos fit in 4E, and (secondarily) a place to collect musings on how to allow it anyway...

Combining two properties into one item feels like a natural thing to do, and the answer "it isn't balanced and can't be done" can feel a little bit... unsatisfying... I guess.

Well, just the fact that the rules say "pick one" and you find the argument that it's "not balanced and can't be done" unsatisfying, I don't see how a "simple no" would've sufficed.

 

[keterys]

The rule is "Don't do that. It's a bad idea" - that said, I think it's probably reasonable to just say "a second property reduces the enhancement bonus by 1" and leave it there.

 

[Roger]

One of the things about 4E that took me a while to wrap my head around was the idea that stuff is in the game to be used, and not just in the last %25 of the level range.

Artifacts are part of the game. Characters can start finding them around level 6 or so.

This is a pretty radical change. Don't let the word "artifact" and the baggage of past editions scare you off.

So, yeah, your Flaming Berserker Battleaxe +2 is an artifact. That's fine. They're not all One Rings and body parts of demigods any more.


Cheers,
Roger

 

[CapnZapp]

So, yeah, your Flaming Berserker Battleaxe +2 is an artifact. That's fine. They're not all One Rings and body parts of demigods any more.

Well, yes, in the "can't be reproduced using the rules as we know them" sense.

Not in any sentient I-ll-go-whenever-Im-done mentality sense, that 4E has added to its artifact definition.

Thanks all.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Not in any sentient I-ll-go-whenever-Im-done mentality sense, that 4E has added to its artifact definition.

That's easily fixed. Just add it as a 3rd property!

 

[DracoSuave]

Well, yes, in the "can't be reproduced using the rules as we know them" sense.

Not in any sentient I-ll-go-whenever-Im-done mentality sense, that 4E has added to its artifact definition.

Thanks all.

That's okay, considering that characters don't use the same +1 flaming sword through their careers either.

There's little difference mechanically between 'This item is no longer useful' and 'This item has served its purpose.' The result is the same, so as a DM, you can have such an item go away when it's time for the party to move on.

 

[LightPhoenix]

One of the FR books has "Minor Artifacts", which are basically items that are more magical than normal magical items (ie, PHB, AV) but less magical than true artifacts. That'd be a good place to start, I think.

One reason for not allowing the stacking of magical properties would be The Math. Assuming that you would need to trade something to gain the additional properties (ie, -1/extra property), you would end up falling behind on the expected numbers you should have, and would end up hitting less.