Multiattack

[Lord Pendragon]

But if you have 'the ability to acquire' three natural weapons, then you can have, so long as you use that ability.

But if you have 'the ability to boost your int by +4,' then you can have an int of +4, so long as you use that ability.

...and get +2 skill points at level up?

Not in my game. You have to have the required trait for the entire level. Not a few hours at a time when you choose.

I may just rule that the character can take the feat when they have enough times per day and duration to essentially stay wildshaped permanently.

If the druid chose to spend an entire level wildshaped into something with three or more natural weapons, I'd allow him to take Multiattack. It'd mean the entire level, though. Not "during the day" or "when in a dungeon" or any other such thing. All the time. If the PC is willing to put that much time and effort into learning to fight more efficiently with natural weapons in wildshape, then all right, he's earned it.

But that would be a House Rule I'd be willing to make. RAW, no.

 

[Dimwhit]

Not in my game. You have to have the required trait for the entire level. Not a few hours at a time when you choose.If the druid chose to spend an entire level wildshaped into something with three or more natural weapons, I'd allow him to take Multiattack. It'd mean the entire level, though. Not "during the day" or "when in a dungeon" or any other such thing. All the time. If the PC is willing to put that much time and effort into learning to fight more efficiently with natural weapons in wildshape, then all right, he's earned it.

Out of curiosity, do you impose that same requirement for someone wanting to take Improved Unarmed Strike? They have to spent the entire level using nothing but their unarmed attack before they can take the feat? Or the same with Improved Two-Weapon Fighting? Or other similar feats?

 

[sukael]

But if you have 'the ability to boost your int by +4,' then you can have an int of +4, so long as you use that ability.

...and get +2 skill points at level up?

I'm not sure exactly where it is in the RAW, but I do know I've seen a statement to the effect that Int-boost items never actually grant more skill points.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Out of curiosity, do you impose that same requirement for someone wanting to take Improved Unarmed Strike? They have to spent the entire level using nothing but their unarmed attack before they can take the feat? Or the same with Improved Two-Weapon Fighting? Or other similar feats?

Yes, but not in the way you have stated.

Improved Unarmed Strike does not have a prerequisite of "You must only use your unarmed attack" nor does Improved Two-Weapon Fighting have a prerequisite of "you must only attack with two weapons." So your "example" is meaningless. I'm not creating prerequisites. I'm requiring that the PC who wants to take a feat have those prerequisites continuously for an entire level before he can take the feat. After he's taken the feat, if he then loses the prereq, he simply loses access to the feat. But he cannot take the feat unless he has that prereq on more than a temporary basis.

Improved Unarmed Strike has no prerequisites. So nothing is required to take it.

Improved Two-Weapon Fighting requires one to have Two-Weapon Fighting, Dex 17+, and a BAB of 6+ to take the feat. So the following characters could not take ITWF as a feat:

* A character with a 14 Dex under the effects of a Cat's Grace spell.

* A character with a 14 Dex who puts on +4 Gloves of Dexterity for a minute to level up.

* A character who borrows a magic item that grants the Two-Weapon Fighting feat while wielded (he'd have to borrow the weapon for an entire level and use it all the time, and then once he gave it back he'd lose access to ITWF until he found a way to get access to TWF again.)

* A multiclassed-cleric with a BAB of <6 who casts Divine Power to boost his BAB to 6+.

Edit to add: Let me try and put it another way. I don't require the druid to fight with three weapons in particular. He could have Natural Spell and earn all his xp by using his magic. The point is that he have three natural weapons for the length of the previous level, before he take Multiattack, because having three natural weapons is a prerequisite of the feat. Not "the ability to have three natural weapons a few hours at a time."

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I'm not sure exactly where it is in the RAW, but I do know I've seen a statement to the effect that Int-boost items never actually grant more skill points.

This is true in 3.5, though it was not so in 3.0. Good catch. I have House Ruled it in my game to use the old 3.0 rules. So this example is indeed invalid in 3.5, though the logic behind it is not.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I'm requiring that the PC who wants to take a feat have those prerequisites continuously for an entire level before he can take the feat.

Unfortunately, this ruling has its own problems, in that it adds the following to your list of unfortunates:

So the following characters could not take ITWF as a feat:

• A character with a 14 Dex under the effects of a Cat's Grace spell.
• A character with a 14 Dex who puts on +4 Gloves of Dexterity for a minute to level up.
• A character who borrows a magic item that grants the Two-Weapon Fighting feat while wielded (he'd have to borrow the weapon for an entire level and use it all the time, and then once he gave it back he'd lose access to ITWF until he found a way to get access to TWF again.)
• A multiclassed-cleric with a BAB of <6 who casts Divine Power to boost his BAB to 6+.
• A character with a natural 17 Dexterity who was hit once, two months ago, with some paralytic (Dex damage) poison and then cured within a few hours

 

[Dimwhit]

Improved Unarmed Strike does not have a prerequisite of "You must only use your unarmed attack" nor does Improved Two-Weapon Fighting have a prerequisite of "you must only attack with two weapons."

Nor does multiattack require that you "must only attack with three natural weapons." So it's not meaningless.

All three feats basically improve upon weapons (or fighting styles) that the character uses and has access to.

Nowhere have I seen in the RAW does it state a Druid can't take the feat. And based on other weapon-related feats, Multiattack functions like all the others. Can't see a reason it doesn't fit in the RAW.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm requiring that the PC who wants to take a feat have those prerequisites continuously for an entire level before he can take the feat.

Improved Two-Weapon Fighting requires one to have Two-Weapon Fighting, Dex 17+, and a BAB of 6+ to take the feat. So the following characters could not take ITWF as a feat:

* A character with a 14 Dex under the effects of a Cat's Grace spell.

* A character with a 14 Dex who puts on +4 Gloves of Dexterity for a minute to level up.

* A character who borrows a magic item that grants the Two-Weapon Fighting feat while wielded (he'd have to borrow the weapon for an entire level and use it all the time, and then once he gave it back he'd lose access to ITWF until he found a way to get access to TWF again.)

* A multiclassed-cleric with a BAB of <6 who casts Divine Power to boost his BAB to 6+.

Edit to add: Let me try and put it another way. I don't require the druid to fight with three weapons in particular. He could have Natural Spell and earn all his xp by using his magic. The point is that he have three natural weapons for the length of the previous level, before he take Multiattack, because having three natural weapons is a prerequisite of the feat. Not "the ability to have three natural weapons a few hours at a time."

So can a Fighter-5 who levels to Fighter-6 take Improved TWF? For the whole previous level, his BAB was 5, which isn't 6+, so according to your ruling, he doesn't satisfy the prerequisites.

What about a Fighter-3 with 12 Int who levels to Fighter-4 and puts his ability bump in Int? He now has Int 13+, but for the whole previous level, it was 12... can he take Combat Expertise?

-Hyp.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Nowhere have I seen in the RAW does it state a Druid can't take the feat. And based on other weapon-related feats, Multiattack functions like all the others. Can't see a reason it doesn't fit in the RAW.

Because a druid doesn't have three natural weapons. It just doesn't get simpler than that, IMO. I suppose we just have to agree to disagree at this point.

Good gaming.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

So can a Fighter-5 who levels to Fighter-6 take Improved TWF? For the whole previous level, his BAB was 5, which isn't 6+, so according to your ruling, he doesn't satisfy the prerequisites.

What about a Fighter-3 with 12 Int who levels to Fighter-4 and puts his ability bump in Int? He now has Int 13+, but for the whole previous level, it was 12... can he take Combat Expertise?

Yes. These situations fall squarely within the rules, because the PC in question is gaining the appropriate prereq straight up. My ruling above is an ad-hoc ruling meant to provide some allowance for PCs who want to gain access to a feat without having the appropriate prereq. I allow them to do so, so long as they at least have the prereq for one full level before they take the feat, to give them the experience that a character who actually has the prereqs is assumed to have gotten.

Looking back over the thread of posts, perhaps I've misrepresented myself. Let me try and clear things up. It is my belief, and ruling, that you must have the prereq for a feat to take it, period. I do not believe that a druid who can wildshape fulfills the prereq for Multiattack of "three natural weapons."

However, I House Rule my game to make some allowance for PCs who want to fulfill prereqs through non-permanent magic/special abilities/whatever. For such PCs, I require that they have the required prereq for a full level before they gain access to the feat.