Multiclass monks and unarmed strike

[Ender988]

Ok last night I rolled up a multiclass monk. For the purposes of this question it doesn't matter what class, but basically i made a level 5 monk, level 3 rogue. So I was trying to figure out what his base attack(s) would be fighting unarmed...

A level 5 monk has a base attack bonus of 3, and a level 3 rogue has a base attack bonus of 2, so going by Table 3-1 (page 22) of the player's handbook, he would have a base attack of 5 (3+2), which does not allow him a second attack.

My question is, what is his base attack bonus when fighting unarmed??? According to Table 3-10 (page 38 of PH), a monk fighting unarmed with a base attack bonus of +5 gets a second attack at +2. Even though I'm not a level 7 monk, wouldn't I still get my bonuses off of the Unarmed Attack Bonus table, and not the normal bonus table for other multiclasses?

I don't know if there's an official rule or not, but it makes more sense to me. Otherwise, what's the point of ever multiclassing a monk? Any input on this would be appreciated!

-Ender

 

[Mr.Binx]

This is one of those questions that comes up at least once every week or so and has already been answered multiple times. Please read the Official WotC D&D 3rd. Ed. FAQ.

 

[Ranger REG]

To summarize: choose either multiclass combined BAB (yes, monk have BAB, too) OR the monk's UAB, whichever is more favorable.

 

[Zhure]

http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=488

OA, page 33-34
"Character who have levels of only monk classes always get more unarmed attacks than they would noramlly get based on their base attack bonus (additionaly attacks at intervals of -3, instead of -5). Characters who have levels in other classes as well may or may not gain an advantage from this, and any advantage is often slight.

"Table 3-1: Multiple Unarmed Attacks
Base Attack Bonus Additional Unarmed Attacks
+0 .... ---
+1 .... ---
+2 .... ---
+3 .... ---
+4 .... +1
+5 .... +2
+6 .... +3
+7 .... +4/+1
+8 .... +5/+2
+9 .... +6/+3
+10 ... +7/+4/+1
+11 ... +8/+5/+2
+12 ... +9/+6/+3
+13 ... +10/+7/+4/+1
+14 ... +11/+8/+5/+2
+15 ... +12/+9/+6/+3

"Example: Asako Turima is a 10th-level monk/4th-level henshin mystic. His base attack bonus is +10 (+7 from his monk levels, +3 from his henshin mystic levels). Normally, this would give him an additional attack at +5. He can instead take the additional unarmed attacks listed for his +10 attack bonus (since the entire bonus is derived from monk and mystic levels) on Table 3-1: Multiple Unarmed Attacks, +7/+4/+1. Thus, he can make four attacks in a round with an unarmed strike (or a monk weaopn), at +10, +7, +4 and +1. When using another weapon, he can make two attacks at +10 and +5. He has the unarmed damage, AC bonus and speed of a 14th-level monk.

"Togashi Tidaiko, however, is a 3rd-level samurai/5th-level monk/ 7th-level tattooed monk. Her base attack bonus is +11 (+3 from her samurai levels, +3 from her monk levels, and +5 from her tattooed monk levels). Normally she would have two additional attacks at +6 and +1. She can instead take the additional unarmed attacks listed for a +8 base attack bonus from her monk and tattooed monk levels on Table 3-1, +5 and +2. She makes three attacks in a round, whether armed or unarmed. If unarmed (or using a monk weapon), she can choose whether to strike at +11/+6/+1 or at +11/+5/+2. Armed with an ordinary weapon, she must attack at +11/+6/+1. She has the unarmed damage, AC bonus, and abase speed of a 12-th level monk."

from the PHB, page 55
"Monk Base Attack Bonus: The monk is a special case because her additional unarmed attacks are better than her base attack bonus would suggest. For a multiclass monk fighting unarmed, the character must either use the additional attacks given for her monk levels (only) or the additional attacks that are standard for her combined base attack bonus, but not both. "

 

[Chun-tzu]

The above statements are correct.

To play devil's advocate, prominent 3E designer Sean K. Reynolds argues the following:
http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/PH_opinions_classes.html

Monk base attack bonus should stack with the base attack bonus from other classes for the purpose of her unarmed attack rate. It just doesn't make sense to me that a monk who takes some levels in fighter can't add her fighter BAB to her monk BAB and use it to get more attacks per round. Your BAB reflects your knowledge of fighting and fighting skill, and just because you spend some time fighting with a sword doesn't mean you can't apply the knowledge of "hit on the head, it hurts more" to when you punch someone. A wizard class' BAB adds to a fighter class' BAB, so the fighter class (and all other classes) should add to the monk BAB. It's just weird that they don't stack, and particularly hoses the monk that takes a few levels of fighter. They should still be limited to the mnk20's 5 attacks per round, though.

So your DM may allow it to stack, as a house rule.

 

[Shampoohorn]

Monk base attack bonus should stack with the base attack bonus from other classes for the purpose of her unarmed attack rate

Another alternative house rule I've been thinking about incorporating is to eliminate the increased monk attack rate and just give them a High BAB progression for unarmed attacks (& monk weapons) and Medium BAB for all other weapons. Now you can let their BAB's stack without having to deal with all the silly number juggling or being concerned that they'll end up with 7 unmodified attacks per round. Having Flurry of Blows still gives the monk that "I can hit you so many times your head will spin" flavor.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Another possibility is to create a feat that allows other classes' BAB to stack with the Monk's UBAB. I would allow it as a Fighter bonus feat.

 

[dcollins]

I'll just chip in that all of the preceding are in fact at variance with what's actually written in the example in the PH. If you read closely, it actually specifies that you are supposed to stack the UBAB + BAB for the purpose of the highest attack only, and then choose the best isolated series for the follow-up attacks.

 

[Zhure]

That's what my examples say.

Greg

 

[Shampoohorn]

I'll just chip in that all of the preceding are in fact at variance with what's actually written

What I suggested is different. It changes their BAB from Medium to High and takes away the faster attack progression. A 20th level monk by my method would have an unarmed BAB of 20/15/10/5.