D&D 5E Multiclassing in Next

[Chris_Nightwing]

I think 5e will have to walk a very careful tightrope because you don't want taking a level in a new class to give too much or too little. Unfortunately, it appears that simplicity (or alternately, rules elegance) will be the casualty.

I've always been of the view that one of the key reasons why spellcaster multiclassing was problematic in 3e was because gaining one spellcaster level led to gains in three or four dimensions:

1. An increase in the number and power of spell slots available (this can be further decomposed into the total number of slots and the power of each slot);
2. Access to more powerful spells, about every other level or so; and
3. An increase in the power of individual spells.

What we're seeing at the moment is a healthy dose of both 1 and 2. Wizards are quadratic (I'll argue that before they were cubic!).

The problem is, gaining a level in a non-spellcasting class gives you perhaps a bit more to-hit, a bit more damage, a special ability. Gaining a spellcasting level gives you more spells and better spells. In the simplest case, a level of Rogue gives you another +1d6 on sneak attack, and you can do that as frequently as you previously could. A level in Fighter gives you slightly better, perhaps more, expertise dice, which you can use as frequently as you could before. A level in Wizard gives you more frequent use of your existing spells and you get new, more powerful spells.

To fix this requires a fundamental shift in how spellcasting progresses. It needn't be the one size fits all approach of 4E, but something has to change.

If we had to keep 9 spell levels (which is hard work), then I would attempt to detach the ability to cast them from Wizard level. Perhaps return to the requirement of 10+spell level Intelligence to cast a particular spell. Then I would have a spell-point-like preparation system, so that a Wizard gets an increasing number of spell slots available, but higher level spells take up more slots. A Wizard would have an entry in their class table for 'spell slots' and 'maximum number of spells', but spell level would be detached (hence this would be much easier if there were fewer levels and they could be curved less dramatically). Getting a single level of Wizard might let you cast a pretty good spell, but you'll just have one, or you can have a suite of lower level spells. The only problem is preventing super-spells being available immediately (and my suggestion here is returning to the days of no automatic spell learning - these things exist but must be earned!).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

While I started off with AD&D back in the 1970s, 3Ed/3.5Ed style multiclassing is far and away my favorite.

 

[FireLance]

The only problem is preventing super-spells being available immediately (and my suggestion here is returning to the days of no automatic spell learning - these things exist but must be earned!).

There is one other possibility that could work, but which would add an additional layer of complication to spells: anyone who wants to learn a spell must meet certain prerequisites. This is an approach that was previously tried for the maneuvers in the 3.5e Book of Nine Swords.

Prerequisites could be expressed in terms of knowledge of a specific spell or spells (e.g. before you can learn fireball, you need to learn burning hands), knowledge of a certain number of spells of a particular type (e.g. before you can learn wall of fire, you need to know at least two other fire spells), a particular level of skill (e.g. before you can learn 3rd-level spells, you need 4 ranks of Magical Lore), etc.

Of course, this also works better when there are more restrictions to learning spells. A wizard who can just add spells to his spellbook would find this to be more of just a speedbump and less of an actual constraint.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

There is one other possibility that could work, but which would add an additional layer of complication to spells: anyone who wants to learn a spell must meet certain prerequisites. This is an approach that was previously tried for the maneuvers in the 3.5e Book of Nine Swords.

Prerequisites could be expressed in terms of knowledge of a specific spell or spells (e.g. before you can learn fireball, you need to learn burning hands), knowledge of a certain number of spells of a particular type (e.g. before you can learn wall of fire, you need to know at least two other fire spells), a particular level of skill (e.g. before you can learn 3rd-level spells, you need 4 ranks of Magical Lore), etc.

Of course, this also works better when there are more restrictions to learning spells. A wizard who can just add spells to his spellbook would find this to be more of just a speedbump and less of an actual constraint.

I think this sort of thing would work and create appropriately themed Wizards (rather than the swiss army spellcasters we have had before).

Basically, there has never been much of an effort to restrict access to abilities related to skills and physical combat, but there is a huge barrier to entry to casting a decent spell.

 

[Jack99]

Presumably the intention is to ensure that you can only play your character concept once you've got several levels behind you and picked up the relevant prestige class. That's one more tick in the "No Sale" column for me.

That's some assumption you have got going there.

While I started off with AD&D back in the 1970s, 3Ed/3.5Ed style multiclassing is far and away my favorite.

Haha. I totally read. "When I started off with AD&D back in the 1970s, 3Ed/3.5Ed style multiclassing was far and away my favorite. Which would be much more fun.

 

[MoonSong]

There is one other possibility that could work, but which would add an additional layer of complication to spells: anyone who wants to learn a spell must meet certain prerequisites. This is an approach that was previously tried for the maneuvers in the 3.5e Book of Nine Swords.

Prerequisites could be expressed in terms of knowledge of a specific spell or spells (e.g. before you can learn fireball, you need to learn burning hands), knowledge of a certain number of spells of a particular type (e.g. before you can learn wall of fire, you need to know at least two other fire spells), a particular level of skill (e.g. before you can learn 3rd-level spells, you need 4 ranks of Magical Lore), etc.

Of course, this also works better when there are more restrictions to learning spells. A wizard who can just add spells to his spellbook would find this to be more of just a speedbump and less of an actual constraint.

I'm not sure, to me this imposes a heavy penalty on sorcerers, as that further restricts their versatility. Anything you do to the wizard, the sorcerer suffers it twice as hard.

 

[Grimmjow]

i like it!

 

[tuxgeo]

What do you think a rogue with the necromancer theme and soldier background is? He's a thief/mage/fighter. Doesn't even have to be a half-elf (2nd edition represent! [just kidding]).

I'm glad you said, "just kidding," because I don't believe that description.

To me, a 1st-level rogue with the necromancer specialty and the soldier background is a has-been warrior who is a member of the rogue class, but who has no magic capability at all because the "Aura of Souls" feat requires spellcasting ability before a character can take it.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Another choice I can't get behind WotC.

 

[Greg K]

This won't work for me. 3e is my favorite edition (provided I stay away from most WOTC supplements), but I thought that the default multi-classing rules sucked)). I want characters to have to learn 0-level spells before taking a level granting 1st level, etc. I also hope that the training rules (time, access to a trainer, etc.) are there as a default and that there are even pre-requisites skills (Magic Lore for Wizards, Forbidden Lore for Warlocks, etc.) and, possibly, a feat granting the ability to cast 0-level spells or going through 0-level in a class

If they do go with a 3e approach, I
1. hope they reintroduce 0 level/0 level multiclassing at first level or some equivalent
2. make multi-classing work more like Star Wars: Saga Editon. Class Armor and Weapon Proficiencies are feats granted to first level characters. If one multi-classes into a new class, the character can choose to take either
a. an Armor Proficiency feat;
b. a Weapon Proficiency feat; or
c. another class feature;