Mutants and Masterminds - limited copies available!

[FTracer]

I don't have my book in front of me, but I'll relate what I can remember. There are no "characters" in the book that are identifiable by name, just archetypes. Of course, the only real difference between, say, Protonik and the Original Archetype (now called Paragons) is the name. The PC Archetypes fairly much follow what you would expect (Martial Artists, Gadgeteer, Powerhouse, Shape-shifter, Weapons-Master, ect.). The Totem is pretty much gone, replaced by the much better Shape-shifter (which can also be a Metamorpho-like character if needed). Also, the art for these is brand new and not recycled from 1ed.

The interesting addition are the villain archetypes. Basically, we're given a fairly basic, iconic villain archetype (some higher than PL10) that can be expanded/altered to serve your campaign. Examples include The Armored Megolomaniac, The Brain-in-a-Jar, The Corrupt Sorceror, The Kung-fu Killer, ect. As noted, they aren't indentified by a given name (sorry, no Atomic Brain), but rather their archetype.

I can expand upon this once I get home and find my book.

That sounds cool! I like the archtypes idea better myself than named characters. Plus the villians archtypes make it easier for a GM to modify quickly.

 

[Teflon Billy]

OK, review of M&M 2E is up

Click me, I'm a review

 

[Elric]

Hmmm. I don't know. I mean it certainly still looks quite a bit worse

I mean, which is more common? Losing your Dex bonus or being Nullified, Drained, Disintegrated etc.).

It looks like it is commonly worse, but in a very narrow situation, it's better.

Here's the way I see it (I don't have the book yet): in any point buy system there will be powers that should cost slightly more than what they cost and powers that should cost slightly less than what they cost. Without resorting to fractions there's no way to fix this.

The problem is especially true for 1 pp powers where a power that costs 1 pp may actually “be worth” 0.7-1.3 pp (70-130% of its cost). On the other hand, a 4 pp power worth 3.7-4.3 pp is going to be worth 92-108% of its cost.

Frukathka- thanks for posting that. It works just like D&D Evasion (and Improved Evasion) then.

The problem I have is as follows: Let’s assume that you currently make Reflex saves 50% of the time. Let’s also assume that taking two half damage attacks is just as bad as one full damage attacks (clearly not that case at particularly high or low PLs). Furthermore, I’m going to say that half of your reflex saves are against area attacks.

If you take Improved Evasion for 2 pp then you have a 50% chance to take no damage from the attack and 50% chance to take half damage. Total number of “effective full damage hits”: 50%* ½ + 50% *0= 0.25

Let’s say you take +2 to your Reflex save for 2 pp. Then you have a 60% chance to take half damage and a 40% chance to take no damage. The total number of “effective full damage hits” is 60% * ½ + 40%* 1 = 0.7. If you didn’t take either one you’d have an “effective full damage hits” of 0.75 (50% full damage hits, 50% half damage hits).

Since half of all Reflex saves are area attacks, Improved Evasion should be roughly twice as effective for resisting area attacks as improving your Reflex save. However, it isn’t; taking Improved Evasion is 10 times as effective as raising your Reflex save.

Unless area attacks are incredibly rare compared to other types of Reflex saves this is much too effective. It’s possible that area attacks are 20% of Reflex saves: in this case Evasion is undercosted but not by that much. However, my 1e experience (and the list of save types in Simpson’s sheet) suggests that area attacks would be much more prominent.

One thing I haven’t mentioned, though. Everything that I’m describing as a problem could be game design brilliance

The low cost of Evasion might be intended to reduce the prominence of area attacks. After all, if lots of people have Evasion then using area attacks becomes a much riskier proposition. I’ve always felt that the ability to hit multiple opponents at a time and avoid attack rolls was worth the extra pp and the reflex save for half damage (some form of Selective makes things even better).

Without the existence of Evasion, other ways to hit multiple people with one attack (such as the Super-Speed power stunt Rapid Attack and the Autofire extra) would be much weaker. If anyone has taken economics (game theory) recently, this is similar to mixed strategy equilibrium: the power of Evasion makes area attacks less common and since area attacks aren’t that common every character doesn’t have to have Evasion.

Additionally, as previously mentioned the existence of Evasion helps to make Defensive Roll better (and since the feats are so conceptually similar this synergy makes perfect sense).

Steve, care to comment?

 

[Bretbo]

OK, review of M&M 2E is up

Click me, I'm a review

Good review, TB! Don't necessarily agree with all your fine points, but we certainly agree in principle.

As an aside, I've taken it upon myself to converting the villains from 1ed. (Atomic Brain, Gepetto, Hyena, ect.) Let me say its' quite an interesting experiment. Assuming my math is correct, many of the conversions come in close to the Power Point totals given for their Power Level, the PL20 characters are usually coming in much lower. Its' been a real challenge to figure what to make their Skill Levels, since they use different ratios now. Not to mention if I should add anything new that they didn't have in 1ed....had to give Hyena the Rage Feat, made sense. Anyway, back on target...

 

[WayneLigon]

OK, review of M&M 2E is up

Click me, I'm a review

OK, so is there anything that duplicates the power-as-extra-of-other-power? That was one of the major things I loved about M&M Classic, since it exactly duplicates how many superheroes are in the comics. How do they do the various example heroes that were built that way?

 

[Teflon Billy]

OK, so is there anything that duplicates the power-as-extra-of-other-power? That was one of the major things I loved about M&M Classic, since it exactly duplicates how many superheroes are in the comics.

If that's what you liked, I suspected you will be dissapointed as it is now gone. I think they realized (like most everyone I know) that, as a supposed disdvantage, it was all upside.

How do they do the various example heroes that were built that way?

The old Iconic characters are gone.

 

[Karl Green]

If that's what you liked, I suspected you will be dissapointed as it is now gone. I think they realized (like most everyone I know) that, as a supposed disdvantage, it was all upside.



The old Iconic characters are gone.

Two things I disagreed with... oh well

Still going to check it out...

 

[Teflon Billy]

Two things I disagreed with... oh well

Still going to check it out...

Yeah, I hope they re-do Freedom City and Crooks.

 

[Kenson]

Yeah, I hope they re-do Freedom City and Crooks.

Freedom City, Second Edition is already in the works and slated for a November release in the same format (256 pages, full color, hardcover). Includes everything from Foes of Freedom and chock full of cool new stuff, too.

No plans for a new edition of Crooks right now, but other cool stuff in the works, like the Mastermind's Manual and Golden Age.

 

[Teflon Billy]

Freedom City, Second Edition is already in the works and slated for a November release in the same format (256 pages, full color, hardcover). Includes everything from Foes of Freedom and chock full of cool new stuff, too.

Guh! *Drool*

I've said it before, but I think that Freedom City was the best RPG supplement for any system, ever.

I can't wait to see what it's like with the new ruleset.

No plans for a new edition of Crooks right now, but other cool stuff in the works, like the Mastermind's Manual and Golden Age.

Is the Masterminds Manual about about playing as villains?