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My Paladin killed a.. 2nd thread (The Verdict is IN - p4)

shilsen said:
This has got to be the most entertaining paladin-related thread I've seen. Any chance we could keep you people on retainer for the next paladin debate :)?

Call and I shall answer if the issue in question is worthy of contemplation, deliberation and duscussion.

Does anyone still linger within these hallowed Halls of Justice?
 

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Torm

First Post
SALADIN said:
Does anyone still linger within these hallowed Halls of Justice?

I remain. I still await a follow-up from Vindicator and\or his DM. I am curious as to whether we helped or not.....
 

Torm said:
I remain. I still await a follow-up from Vindicator and\or his DM. I am curious as to whether we helped or not.....

Hail, and Salutations, comrade! I was hoping to meet the enlightened one who had the wisdom to start this thread and manage it well to assist our poor brethren, the Vindicator. I await to hear the verdict of his DM. Having been a DM since 1987, I am well acquainted with the inordinate number of fine lines that one has to walk to ensure a memorable game for one and all. It is heartening to see that there are far more than just a handful out there who are as passionate about the Paladin class as I am. It was my first class when I first started D&D in 1985 and it was the last class I played when I decided to DM full-time.
 

Zimri

First Post
Simone Menden Worshipper of Pistis Sophia and Ilmater yet remains awaiting an update from Vindicator the vindicated. Though I am monk and not paladin the paths are not terribly dissimilar in my experience, nor that of my companion. Zimri worshipper of both Raziel and Ilmater
 

MaxKaladin

First Post
SALADIN said:
Does anyone still linger within these hallowed Halls of Justice?
A voice from the doorway answers: "I cannot say I linger, having just arrived. I am, however, here. I am Max Kaladin, Paladin* of Torm and member of the Order of the Golden Lion. It would appear I have arrived too late for my services to be needed."

A tall, handsome man walks toward Saladin, each footstep echoing loudly in the nearly empty hall. He wears full plate armor with a deep purple hue that seems to radiate from within the metal itself rather than being the result of any finish applied to the armor. Under one arm he carries his helm while the holy symbol of his faith hangs from a plain chain around his neck. At his waist are two swords, one longer than the other.

"I suppose there is no harm done as the verdict reached seems to have been the one I would have urged the assembled paladins to reach. I must confess that I was just as enthusiastic in my punishment of evildoers in my youth, though I permit myself the conceit of believing that I now temper my actions with more wisdom than I did in my adventuring days. While I suspect I would have done something similar had I encountered this situation back then, I hope that I would now take a few moments to handle the situation a bit more... judiciously. You see, of all the news that has reached me of the the event and the debate surrounding it the lack of one thing has stood out in my mind. That is the effect seeing a man killed right in front of her will have on the child in question. Tormentor or not, witnessing such a thing can be very traumatic for children even in the harsh world we find outselves in. She has suffered enough without having to witness such a thing. Some might say that it is best to see justice done and that is true for some, but I suspect less so for most children. No, I think it would have been better if the paladin in this case had removed the man from the girl's sight before visiting justice upon him."

* Yes, he's Lawful Good. I don't think they allow any other kind of paladin, though I confess I haven't looked at the 3.x rules -- Max dates to the heyday of 2nd Edition.
 

Zimri said:
Simone Menden Worshipper of Pistis Sophia and Ilmater yet remains awaiting an update from Vindicator the vindicated. Though I am monk and not paladin the paths are not terribly dissimilar in my experience, nor that of my companion. Zimri worshipper of both Raziel and Ilmater

Salutations, Simone! I have not yet expressed my views on this dilemma faced by our brethren , the Vindicator, so I will now, tho it is of little consequence:

While it may seem somewhat cowardly and dishonourable to have attacked the perpetrator of that vile crime from the back with little warning, one has to balance that against the gravity of the crime and the anguish experienced by the defenceless victim who will presumably be scarred for the rest of her mortal life. Furthermore, Paladins are mortals, as well, albeit ones who are expected to live and be measured against very high standards, hence certain degree of reasonableness and objectivity needs to be exercised before arriving at a conclusion about the Paladin's action. In short, in light of the crime and the age of the victim involved, the Vindicator's actions were justified to some extent, though he ought to factored his DM's hint into the equation and used the blunt side of his blade or the pommel of his sword to incapacitate his target so that he can face justice. And if he is truly concerned, he can take steps to monitor the outcome of his report to the local authorities, and if it seems like they are incapable of delivering justice, then he would be justified to take matters into his own hands. At which point, he would have extended due respect and regard for the local laws and law enforcers and simultaneously delievered justice as it is due to be delievered at the end of the day! - At least thats what I would've done.
 

MaxKaladin said:
A voice from the doorway answers: "I cannot say I linger, having just arrived. I am, however, here. I am Max Kaladin, Paladin* of Torm and member of the Order of the Golden Lion. It would appear I have arrived too late for my services to be needed." ]

Greetings Max! I am honoured to meet a Brethren. I am Emir Saladin Al'Kashan, Paladin of the Righteous Tyr, Nephew to the present Sultan of Amn and Champion of his youngest Daughter. I am in agreement with thy assessment of the issue. While I may not possess the extent of thy deep wisdom, gained from thy long years of practice, I have been well prepared for my role and perphaps may gain more still from thy deep well. That poor child was unduly subjected to far more violence than is natural and further witness to a gruesome end to her perpetrator, hence, as you have rightly pointed out, it would have been far more preferable to have removed the perpetrator from the vicinity to be dealt with some place else, however, in all fairness to Vindicator, when one arrives on scene to witness such vile a crime being delivered upon such innocent a victim, it would take someone with astounding wisdom or gross indifference to stay the sword arm from delivering rightful justice.
 

Zimri

First Post
MaxKaladin said:
A voice from the doorway answers: "I cannot say I linger, having just arrived. I am, however, here. I am Max Kaladin, Paladin* of Torm and member of the Order of the Golden Lion. It would appear I have arrived too late for my services to be needed."

A tall, handsome man walks toward Saladin, each footstep echoing loudly in the nearly empty hall. He wears full plate armor with a deep purple hue that seems to radiate from within the metal itself rather than being the result of any finish applied to the armor. Under one arm he carries his helm while the holy symbol of his faith hangs from a plain chain around his neck. At his waist are two swords, one longer than the other.

"I suppose there is no harm done as the verdict reached seems to have been the one I would have urged the assembled paladins to reach. I must confess that I was just as enthusiastic in my punishment of evildoers in my youth, though I permit myself the conceit of believing that I now temper my actions with more wisdom than I did in my adventuring days. While I suspect I would have done something similar had I encountered this situation back then, I hope that I would now take a few moments to handle the situation a bit more... judiciously. You see, of all the news that has reached me of the the event and the debate surrounding it the lack of one thing has stood out in my mind. That is the effect seeing a man killed right in front of her will have on the child in question. Tormentor or not, witnessing such a thing can be very traumatic for children even in the harsh world we find outselves in. She has suffered enough without having to witness such a thing. Some might say that it is best to see justice done and that is true for some, but I suspect less so for most children. No, I think it would have been better if the paladin in this case had removed the man from the girl's sight before visiting justice upon him."

* Yes, he's Lawful Good. I don't think they allow any other kind of paladin, though I confess I haven't looked at the 3.x rules -- Max dates to the heyday of 2nd Edition.

*The raven and mauve haired Simone rises from her spot on the pew that served as part of the visitors gallery for this court. Her ice blue eyes meet those of the newly arrived.*

Greetings and salutations from Ilmater, The Celestial Hebdomad, and myself. Please forgive me for not bowing. Pistis requires that her servants own and wear little and I would not want to risk my robe falling open in this sanctified place.

I did speak of the trauma that would befall the child at such an occurance. Though admittedly not before this court as I was ill quallified to stand beside so many just and noble persons and offer them instruction. My comments were made amongst the crowd in the village square that lead to these proceedings.

Had I or my companion been on the panel or the swing vote alternate Vindicator would be atoning, though I suspect that neither his loss of stature or his penance would have been all too heavy a burden. He is a good man with a strong heart. In time I am sure he shall learn to temper his justice with thought and mercy.
 

Zimri

First Post
SALADIN said:
Salutations, Simone! I have not yet expressed my views on this dilemma faced by our brethren , the Vindicator, so I will now, tho it is of little consequence:

While it may seem somewhat cowardly and dishonourable to have attacked the perpetrator of that vile crime from the back with little warning, one has to balance that against the gravity of the crime and the anguish experienced by the defenceless victim who will presumably be scarred for the rest of her mortal life. Furthermore, Paladins are mortals, as well, albeit ones who are expected to live and be measured against very high standards, hence certain degree of reasonableness and objectivity needs to be exercised before arriving at a conclusion about the Paladin's action. In short, in light of the crime and the age of the victim involved, the Vindicator's actions were justified to some extent, though he ought to factored his DM's hint into the equation and used the blunt side of his blade or the pommel of his sword to incapacitate his target so that he can face justice. And if he is truly concerned, he can take steps to monitor the outcome of his report to the local authorities, and if it seems like they are incapable of delivering justice, then he would be justified to take matters into his own hands. At which point, he would have extended due respect and regard for the local laws and law enforcers and simultaneously delievered justice as it is due to be delievered at the end of the day! - At least thats what I would've done.

The words of a wise and just person are never truly wasted and are always of import to me Saladin. And you are such a man. All the people that were part of the proceedings and all I have met back here in the gallery are rife with good and noble intentions. It is a good thing that we all weigh things differently if not I fear these lands would be stagnant and corrupt.
 

Zimri said:
*The raven and mauve haired Simone rises from her spot on the pew that served as part of the visitors gallery for this court. Her ice blue eyes meet those of the newly arrived.*

Greetings and salutations from Ilmater, The Celestial Hebdomad, and myself. Please forgive me for not bowing. Pistis requires that her servants own and wear little and I would not want to risk my robe falling open in this sanctified place.

I did speak of the trauma that would befall the child at such an occurance. Though admittedly not before this court as I was ill quallified to stand beside so many just and noble persons and offer them instruction. My comments were made amongst the crowd in the village square that lead to these proceedings.

Had I or my companion been on the panel or the swing vote alternate Vindicator would be atoning, though I suspect that neither his loss of stature or his penance would have been all too heavy a burden. He is a good man with a strong heart. In time I am sure he shall learn to temper his justice with thought and mercy.

*Standing at a tall 6 1/2 feet and broadly built due to some part of Northmen blood running in his veins. Dressed in a completely black traditional costume of Amn, topped with a blood red turban enjeweled with a fist sized diamond, dusky skinned with a well trimmed goatee and deep olive green eyes, Saladin strides forward with a barely a sound from his weatherworn sandals and greets all gathered with a smile as warm as the light in his eyes. A platinum Holy Symbol of Tyr hanging prominently on a thick platinum chain from his neck*
 

Zimri said:
The words of a wise and just person are never truly wasted and are always of import to me Saladin. And you are such a man. All the people that were part of the proceedings and all I have met back here in the gallery are rife with good and noble intentions. It is a good thing that we all weigh things differently if not I fear these lands would be stagnant and corrupt.

You extend to me far more credit than I feel I am worthy of, but I thank you for thy kind words. As always, I strive to be guided by the sure hand of Tyr, for I am nothing more than his humble instrument to be used to rid these tumultuous lands of vile injustice, keen;y tempered by wisdom and honour. Difference is always good, for it will eventually ensure an outcome uniquely appropriate for the issue at hand.
 

Zimri

First Post
We are all but tools of the multiverse, ensuring that things work out the way they are supposed to. Do not mistake that statement for neutrality howevr. Evil must be fought. If you slay one evil perhaps it stays dead and perhaps it just gets stronger and comes back. If instead you turn it to good not only has evil assuredly lost a soul and grown weaker but good has gained one and is stronger.

That having been said had I been the one to walk in on that horrid act the perpetrators life would have lasted marginally longer as my ability to subdue is greater than that of vindicator. Once the child was saved, however the perpetrator would have been soundly beaten by an unarmed, unarmored (heck naked even) young woman in the middle of the town square. I am no paladin, the rules for my actions are not nearly as strict. He would have known my Lord was Ilmater, and he would know what being broken feels like.
 

Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...
You know, I count something in excess of two dozen paladins in the same building.

There's gotta be something in the Book of Vile Darkness to cover occasions like this!

-Hyp.
 

Henry

Autoexreginated
Try as I might, I cannot say, "Max Kaladin, Tormish Paladin" with a straight face. :)

You know, I count something in excess of two dozen paladins in the same building.

There's gotta be something in the Book of Vile Darkness to cover occasions like this!

-Hyp.

I believe there is... let's see... Ah, here it is! New Feat - "Run like Hell," p.49...
 

Abraxas

Explorer
I believe its covered in the "Knowing When To Run if You're Evil" section. ;)

Drat - Henry beat me by a minute !!
 
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Zimri

First Post
Oh SURE. If I were vile I would be thinking of a way to "de paladinize" or kill the whole lot. Running would not be on my to do list.
 


Agemegos

Explorer
Zimri said:
It is a good thing that we all weigh things differently if not I fear these lands would be stagnant and corrupt.

I am afraid that we are far from stagnation in County Durham. The Scots have just crossed the border into Cumbria, and I will be obliged to serve with my lord fighting fellow Christians over a futile border dispute. Kyrie eleison!

As for corruption, since I first discovered the ability that I understand to be what you call 'Detect Evil' I have only met one person who was not accompanied by at least a whiff of the stench of sin. Which is a very melancholy realisation.
 

Sejs

First Post
This has got to be the most entertaining paladin-related thread I've seen. Any chance we could keep you people on retainer for the next paladin debate?
I'd be honored to contribute in this capacity again, should it arise.

Does anyone still linger within these hallowed Halls of Justice?
*looking up from where he had been rummaging through his leather satchel, and hearing Sandelphon's comment, Valentine nods* Mm. I'm still here as well, and at least in part for the same reasons. I'd like to hear from Vindicator if our procedings were of any help to him. That and I've got a bit of a wait ahead of me before my friend comes to pick me up in any event. I figure here's as good a place as any to bide my time, heh.
 

Agemegos

Explorer
shilsen said:
This has got to be the most entertaining paladin-related thread I've seen. Any chance we could keep you people on retainer for the next paladin debate :)?

I will serve if I am called. But I beg Lord Torm that I might be excused.
 

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