Henry said:
No offense meant by this, Darklone, but I can understand why you don't -- that's a VERY high standard to set, and I would say impossible to live up to.
Would you say, Darklone, that a paladin in a Realms campaign that you ran could expect to turn over a molester, and see justice done? Would be he strung by the yardarm, or at least jailed?
I just hope I don't miss anything important in the next three pages of posts I didn't read yet ...
As a DM, I like paladin players who don't simply try to use the gameplay advantages a paladin has. E.g. I like to push them into situations similar (usually not as bad as) this one here and check how they react. If the player reacts in a way that shows he's thinking about the typical paladin problems ... he wins. If not, I take care to counteract extensive munchkinism due to Divine Might/Spirited Charge builds... and go on.
If he reacts positively, he will usually end up as the center of the campaign. Favoritism by my side, I have to confess, but there's not that much that fascinates me more.
I do try not to set traps for him and I will certainly not screw. I see myself as a DM who offers each player his time as superman.
Sooo... in a FR campaign that I would run... weow. Long time ago I ran my last FR game. But yes, the last time a PC showed (in my terms) heroic behavior, he was awarded by a shortcut in the campaign difficulties which the group would have not achieved in any other way (e.g. one of the BBEGs was out of order for good). Of course, I introduced a new one... but one without all the connections of the old one, so the players HAD an advantage.
I don't see Paladins as 1950's versions of Superman - apprehend the evildoer and trust that the courts will always see justice through - nor are they Modern-Day policemen, whose primary responsibility is enforcing the law regardless of whether the common good is served.
Me neither. But they are supposed to try. If it doesn't work, they will work against the greater evil... e.g. setting things right in town, not only molesting small molesters.
A Paladin by PH definition is a ROVING arbiter of justice, hence the "punish evildoers" statement in the PH. a Judge is someone who metes punishment for a crime, and by saying the paladin punishes, he is by nature set up as judge.
Would this be a power we gave a modern human being? HECK, NO! Not by himself, at least. But a paladin is a different case, because he is a DIRECT representative (same as the will) of his god, just as a cleric is. He has the right and wrong of it, because he not only has the deity's teachings to fall back on, he has the deity's influence to fall back on.
Right. But that does not mean IMC that the PLAYER acts as the representative if the DM has another opinion. I had this problem in two of my own campaigns and in one where I was a player (not the paladin). Luckily in my own campaigns, I was able to solve it before it actually occured... by talking.
Now, it's one thing if a DM warns you, "this does fly directly in the face of your god's teachings," but another if the DM makes it a guessing game as to the correct action. In this case, there is a direct precedent of Paladins in the Realms acting as both judge and executioner (no need for a jury, this is god's wills we're talking about here) in difficult circumstances.
By the DMs reaction, I didn't have this feeling. I understood the DMs words as a statement that he understood his paladins different. Otherwise it doesn't really make sense to me (e.g. the player should have been awarded for slaughtering the molester). OTOH, that would be a game that's less interesting to me because human interactions are simplified to a CRPG level
Would it have been better for the paladin to find the circumstances first? Possibly; but it also would have been just as evil to let the courts dispense justice (which in cases of sexual assault were not as severe a crime as some seem to think, especially against a commoner), and then have the man exact retribution on a helpless target.
As I said before, depending on which god this is, the outcome would have not only been "not wrong," but celebrated. Tyr doesn't suffer fools for paladins, and he also doesn't suffer people making fun of his servants; they have a hard enough job trying to stop all the rampant evil in the realms AS IT IS.
I have to admit: One of the reasons I don't play the realms (in that way). A world like this doesn't make sense to me... And I do like to see some sense or realism in the actions of NPCs.
