D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Hussar]

Didn't you say that you live in a smallish Japanese village? Who do you think is going to see more geek stuff: someone who lives in a small town in a country where the language used in the show isn't the main one spoken in that country, or someone who lives in a larger area in a country that uses that language? I don't know where Doctorbadwolf lives, but I'd bet it's in a much different place than you.

Did you miss the part where I actually SEE Forgotten Realms books here in the library? As in pretty recent ones. It just stands out because, well, the foreign book section in my small town Japanese library isn't exactly extensive. That's how much penetration FR has around the world.

 

[Gammadoodler]

You live in a really, really weird place @doctorbadwolf. Not only do people around you completely buck the numbers on halflings played to the point where you apparently see halflings played all the time , but, now you "regularly" see people with CR stickers on their truck? And dozens of CR tattoos? For a web series that gets, according to this chart anyway, a couple of million views per episode?

From this site:
So, for a show that has a couple of million views, it's so popular, so ingrained into pop culture, that you are regularly seeing CR merch?

You don't think, maybe, just maybe, there might be just the teesiest, tiniest bit of confirmation bias going on here? Just maybe?

Like 1.2 billion English speakers (native speakers and multilingual folks) worldwide. 1M watching per week means like what, 1 of 1200 of that population may have seen it.

That's not that many people to encounter on a regular basis.

Roughly 300M native speakers. Call it maybe 1/300 or do of those.

Merch owners are, I'm sure a small fraction of that population, but doesn't seem too unreasonable to expect to see it around.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Did you miss the part where I actually SEE Forgotten Realms books here in the library? As in pretty recent ones. It just stands out because, well, the foreign book section in my small town Japanese library isn't exactly extensive. That's how much penetration FR has around the world.

Orrrrr.. They're really cheap to acquire as excess inventory.

Edit: might have misunderstood. Are these Japanese translated versions or foreign language? If foreign language I stand by the point above.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Didn't you say that you live in a smallish Japanese village? Who do you think is going to see more geek stuff: someone who lives in a small town in a country where the language used in the show isn't the main one spoken in that country, or someone who lives in a larger area in a country that uses that language? I don't know where Doctorbadwolf lives, but I'd bet it's in a much different place than you.

Yeah it’s kind of an odd sticking point to begin with (like how does his related to Halflings?) but to try to act like CR isn’t one of the biggest things in nerdy pop culture right now…like why?

To downplay a couple million views at least per episode…of a show with a few hundred episodes…not counting podcast listens or (unless I’m mistaken) YouTube views, is just silly.

to suggest my area is odd because I see people playing Halflings is downright laughable.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I really know that I shouldn't comment on a post made by someone who blocked me, I only saw it because I've been keeping track of the thread while not logged in as well as while logged in. But it touches on something so fundamental to this discussion that I feel like not responding to it and leaving the idea unexplored is an active detriment to the conversation.

The comparison was made to Steven Universe, particularly in regards to Pearl training Connie to be a "knight" in the way that she was. (Side Note: Pearls as perfect servants who are barely allowed their own personalities are nothing like halflings, but beside the point.)

Doctorbadwolf says in his post that between the Immortal shapeshifting alien, the half-immortal shapeshifting alien chosen one, and the human he'd have a hard time playing the human as a human in DnD. That instead, he would make her a halfling because that "fits better". That the line "You've got nothing but the way you feel, your strategy and your sword." speaks to him of exactly what halflings are, BUT NOT HUMANS.

I'm going to assume a lot of people agree with him, so I want to ask... why? What about DnD humans makes them no longer human?


Part of why this strikes me so hard requires me to explain a bit about how I approach characters in different Genres. In Fantasy games, I pretty much never want to be a human. I always want to explore a different more fantastical expression beyond humanity. Beings ruled by emotions, curses, or magicks that are impossible.

In Science Fiction games, I never want to play anything except a human. I have quite literally played a human in every single science fiction game I have ever played. Because in those games, in that style of world, humans are the ones who are overcoming the long odds through grit and determination, through a desire to never give up. No special powers, no or very little special tech, just the drive to succeed.

In DnD, I want to be the one with special powers. I don't really play Dwarves, rarely elves, occassionally humans, but I love changelings, shifters, gnomes, genasi, tieflings, these beings who have this extra layer to them. And that occasionally humans is for exactly those characters who are exactly embodied by that line "You've got nothing but the way you feel, your strategy and your sword."

To me, humans in DnD aren't special. They don't have any particular advantage in any way. What they have they earned through tireless hardwork and drive. But, it seems that to a lot of you, humans are somehow more. They are the special ones, the ones who don't need their innate drive to succeed because they were born with something that pushes them beyond human limits... and I don't get that. I don't see how you can look at humans in DnD and see something inhuman.

So, what am I missing here?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah the notion that seeing FR books in a small town library in a country that consumes a lot of American media and whose fantasy media is heavily D&D influenced means that FR is some huge megalithic presence in pop culture…I just…dude I see almost no traffic in general nerd or pop culture spaces relating to FR. Like…so little I’d forget it existed if I didn’t come here regularly.

CR is, especially by comparison, ubiquitous to the point where I get tired of seeing it everywhere even though I like the show.

 

[bedir than]

The story of the farm boy who leaves home? Already covered. And that is about the only story the base halfling really gets until you start breaking them away from the Shires and forcing them into the wider world.

I'm sorry, what race is it that you are claiming covers 100% of farmboy who leaves home?

Then again, at your "AND" you admit that there are halflings specific stories, that you desire to destroy.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

A quick perusal online tell me that 2000 and beyond we have had....

22 videogames (not counting expansions or DLC)

183 books (not counting reprints or omnibus editions).

That's not nothing.

Yes....quoting my own post! What are YOU going do about it!?!

As an extra data point to illustrate the vast amount of Forgotten Realms floating around in the world...

I stopped at Bargain Hunt on the way home from work today. If you aren't familiar with that store, they get a lot of overstock and discontinued product from various sources and sell it for fairly cheap. You never know what you will find there, so sometimes I pop in hoping they have a boardgame worthy of addition to my collection.

Today they had a big display table set up with maybe 50 sets of die-cast D&D "Miniatures" . In one set was a Minsc w/Boo figure and in the other set was a Drizzit.

Forgotten Realms in my Bargain Hunt.

 

[Chaosmancer]

If there's no latitude to take a character type and play with it a little bit, that doesn't make for very interesting storytelling, does it? That's not changing halflings. You seem to have a really hard time differentiating between the role of a society or a group of people and the role of an individual.

You are right. It doesn't make for interesting storytelling, that why I've been trying to push for some latitude. But I've been told, unequivocally, that the draw of halflings is that they are never the important people, that they are always overlooked.

And you didn't present an individual, you presented a family. A group of people who are important, supported by the Kingdom and known throughout the region. Exactly the types of things I've been told halflings never do. Exactly the sort of things I WANT halflings to be able to do.

I have never said that I think that halflings don't do anything. I'm not aware of anyone who has. I do think that they are generally content with whatever life hands them and don't seek greatness, but they may have greatness thrust upon them. And it's clear that they interact with the greater world. There are halflings all over the place.

Then I'd say you missed quite a few posts. Because it has come up. They are content with what they have, to the point of never looking beyond their Shires. There is almost no way to thrust greatness upon them, because they are so disconnected from the world that they might as well not exist. You say they are everywhere... but whereever they are they aren't important, they are painted over.

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that the only thing that all halflings do is "mooch protection off of humans and laze around in idyllic glades." I haven't seen anyone argue that it's hard to imagine human commoners surviving in the world because human commoners just mooch off of other humans and are lazy. Why can't it be that most halflings are farmers, shopkeepers, craftspeople, traders, tinkers, commoners, and content with simple things but that some number of them either 1) get the itch to experience something more grand, or 2) are for one reason or another compelled into a life of adventure when all they really want is to be back home. What is the issue with that?

Well, if you don't think that halflings mooch of humans for protection, you haven't read the PHB. "Humans are a lot like us, really. At least some of them are. Step out of the castles and keeps, go talk to the farmers and herders and you’ll find good, solid folk. Not that there’s anything wrong with the barons and soldiers — you have to admire their conviction. And by protecting their own lands, they protect us as well.”

And guess what, even that entry states that if you are looking beyond the castles, lords and soldiers, you find farmers, herders, shopkeepers, craftspeople, traders, tinkers, and good solid folk. Just like with every single other race.

Do you think that there are no elven or dwarven shopkeepers? No Dragonborn Traders? This is what I don't get, every single race has commoners, common people with no aspirations for greatness who may have greatness thrust upon them.... so why am I constantly being told that the only way to truly express that story is through halflings?

I played a Tielfling Storm Sorcerer who all he wanted in life was to live a quite life as a jeweler, who was literally forced by the Gods to go on an adventure (friend of mine's first ever campaign).

 

[Minigiant]

The thing about halflings that weird me out is how they feel like they were not designed for D&D but designed to copy an outside concept.

Like we all know the Way of the 4 Elements Monk is designed to copy the feel of Avatar the Last Airbender and draw inspiration from it. It is a forced insert. It's not a bad subclass but it feels forced. You wouldn't built your setting with it as a major element of the game unless the whole game runs on the elements.

The 5e Halfling and its lore feels forced. Like "It's the 4th LOTR race so we have to add it" forced. The game doesn't feel like it was designed with hallings in mind. And halflings to me feel like they weren't designed to fit in D&D world. They feel like they are 100% design to please fans.

Tolkien designed hobbits to fit in Middle Earth. They were designed to be the best ring carriers. They were designed to be less martal so the Dunedain thet protected them looked more badass. They were designed to highlight that weak peoples can be important to epic dangerous quests. They were designed to bring levity to a grim world. They were designed for the POV of a portion of potential book readers. Halflings feel jammed in in comparison. And since most push settings just copy the same mentality, halflings in 5e feel forced. To me.

Compare this to tieflings. 5e Tieflings feel made for D&D. You're part fiend and this isolates you from many groups and cilivilaztions. This pushes the skilled directly into the adventurer life as adventurers take on anyone of similar goals as friend and allies. Adventurers care lessabout the horns and tail and more that you saved theirs. The lore moves directly into the main play of the game. Tieflings feel more tailored for D&D.