D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Faolyn]

Bad lore absolutely can break a game. Maybe not as easily, but it certainly can happen.

Such as...?

Do you think maybe the example I restated might have something to do with it? And, again, that acrobatics check, as we both acknowedged is an optional rule. So, sure, any human of any level can do it... if you are playing by an optional rule that lets them do it. Let us say that we are playing the base game. Now they can't. So, using the baseline rules they can't do what you are claiming.

Are a lot of DMs not allowing that rule?

Again, you seem like you are just skimming my posts looking for things to disagree with. I acknowledged that they have connections to people when they live in human cities. They are most fully disconnected when it is a halfling only area.

Same with reclusive elves when they don't leave their elfin towers. Same with reclusive dwarfs who don't leave their fortresses.

You're upset when halflings mingle with other races; you're upset when they're alone.

And, maybe instead of just saying I'm wrong... tell me what role does a halfling shire play in the wider region? They don't pay taxes we know that much. They have no indication of engaging in any signifcant trade. The absolute most they do is engage in a marketday with human cities... exactly like a human village. So halfling village or human village... there is no difference to the nearby area if it is one or the other.

Which shire is it, and which region? I don't assume that every one of them is the same.

So, prove it. What is this role? Just being exactly like the good, salt of the earth human farmer boys who are bright eyed and innocent and dreaming of chasing butterflies while they fish in the crick? Because that's what they are so far.

I've already given you several roles. You've said they don't count because of reasons.

And I don't like it. At all. I find it is pretty terrible lore. Because it demonizes thinking.

Yes, that's true. However, here you are, changing a bit of lore you don't like while at the same time saying that it's wrong to do that for halflings because it's not canon.

No, they gather stories. Stories =/= lore.

And, if they happen to accidentally gather some lore along the way, that doesn't make them lorekeepers. If it did, everyone would be lorekeepers.

We already had this discussion. MTF describes them as gathering lore.

What do you mean by "looking for excitement"? If they are just traveling around to see the temples in the major cities, they aren't adventurers, they are pilgrims. If they are looking for excitement by just going to various places to try new foods, then they are tourists, not adventurers.

They're exploring the unknown. It clearly says that in MTF. I have better things to do then read the entire book to you.

It is because they take it too far. You understand what a Mary Sue or Gary Stu character is right? And getting to the point where everyone good likes you and only bad people don't because you are so pure and good and wholesome puts you pretty firmly on that path. And that is the type of discourse people give halflings in these threads.

All this just proves, once again, that you haven't actually read the bit on halflings or given it any thought or paid attention to what people have been saying about them on this thread. Hint: we've been saying that they're nice. Not that they're perfect, pure, or wholesome.

You know what? I give up. I'm tired of this. I'm now convinced you're just trolling me, because that's the only possible explanation for how you don't understand or remember things that have been explained to you what, at least a half-dozen times so far. Go forth and never play a halfling. I literally don't care. Just stop telling people halflings are objectively bad when, in reality, that's just your opinion.

 

[Cadence]

8,200 ft is what defines the minimum height of a mountain according to Google. The Mror face (which I chose simple because it was the most impressive visual I could point to that I knew you had seen) Looks like it is larger than the mountain beside it. That means, at a bare minimum, it would have to be at least 9,000 ft tall, and I'd really argue it is closer toward the 20,000 ft scale.

What did you google to get 8,200 ft for the minimum height of a mountain? The first bunch of links I turned up said either 1,000ft or 2,000ft being common definitions. In any case, the tallest of the Appalachian mountains for example is only 6,684 ft, and the Appalachian mountains apparently average around 3000ft.

 

[lingual]

You should write letters to the makers of the game instead of trying to convince the general player population. I have not read all the essays in this thread but I'm sure there are some decent arguments on how to improve the game.

That being said, I also see a lot of posts in this forum about how the game should be changed to personal tastes. It is as if some people think they have some sort of ownership in the game - and that they are "right". Sometimes I think people should just play another game since, even when they can homebrew stuff all they want, they will be dissatisfied unless their opinions become "official". There's some other thread where someone appears to be getting genuinely upset that a lot of players think Champion fighters are okay.

 

[jayoungr]

No. They puh halflings as a common race for the world.

"Common" still doesn't mean the same as impactful. Halflings are numerous but don't do much on a grand, history-making scale. I just don't see a problem with this.

I think that WotC doesn't need to continue with the common/uncommon races, since it should be up to the DM as to how common each race is in their world.

I can get behind this as a compromise.

 

[Don Durito]

I always thought that sooner or later everyone played in a game when the Halflings filled the main civilised culture niche of the game and humans were the crude barbaric beings living in skins in the wilderness that occasionally wandered into civilised lands.

I thought it was pretty much a rite of passage. Like the setting where the elves are the main race and have a big empire that everyone comes up with at some point. (Eg see Steven Brust's Vlad Taltos novels for a version of this that turned into a novel series).

Or is everyone too obsessed with lore and Canon these days to do this kind of thing?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Firbolgs aren't associated with war, imperialism and aggression, and have actually good lore. In fact, they largely don't matter to the outside world either... and yet I'd say they still have some good lore to them. So, why can't haflings at least reach that level? Why do they have to be one of the four most important and iconic races and simultaneously not matter at all?

My players don't want to play firbolgs, they want to play halflings.

The lore is irrelevant, since it doesn't crop up.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Y'know, I'm going to drag back one of my earlier points where I said that Halflings have a bit of the 'Later 3.5e race' to how heavy they go into their niche.

Remember how 3.5e had all sorts of races at narrower and narrower niches? Like, let's look at the Expanded Psionics Handbook as this had one of the worst. You've got Dromite (Interesting bug-folk), Half Giants (This is where they became "Goliaths but with psionics" that they'd keep into 4E incidentally) and then, the bad one. The Xeph. What are the Xeph? They're off-brand Gith who exist to be soulknives and/or make Protoss jokes from Starcraft. That's their whole thing. They delve too hard into that. And 3.5E had -tons- of these races. Halflings have that whole "This is a niche that needs filling and, we are filling this niche no matter what" and don't have much room to move out of that niche

Mind my whole thing in this argument is "I want dragonborn and tieflings promoted more and halflings less as reflective of their popularity among the fanbase and also to make people who want Dragonborn and Tieflings removed to have to face that knowledge" soooo my position on this is not the best out there

only filling a niche without things to work with outside it is bad design, it is why thri kreen are more or less the best psionic race the have other things you might want.
it would have been cheaper to make xeph literal relatives of gith who decided to move to the prime.

I think their lore is fine, and I don't think worldbuilding impact is necessary.

why?

Again, I don't see it that way. To the extent that they "push" halflings, they push them as common members of adventuring parties. That's not the same thing.

if they are that common in adventuring parties have more things to pull from other than bilbo/frodo clone number 9455 would be immensely useful.

You should write letters to the makers of the game instead of trying to convince the general player population. I have not read all the essays in this thread but I'm sure there are some decent arguments on how to improve the game.

That being said, I also see a lot of posts in this forum about how the game should be changed to personal tastes. It is as if some people think they have some sort of ownership in the game - and that they are "right". Sometimes I think people should just play another game since, even when they can homebrew stuff all they want, they will be dissatisfied unless their opinions become "official". There's some other thread where someone appears to be getting genuinely upset that a lot of players think Champion fighters are okay.

one voice to the makers does nothing, it is why you convince others and as more voice get seen as more serious.

My players don't want to play firbolgs, they want to play halflings.

The lore is irrelevant, since it doesn't crop up.

and why do they want to play halflings then?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

and why do they want to play halflings then?

I don't know. I just know that it is by far the most popular player race in my game (having just overtaken human).

 

[Mind of tempest]

I don't know. I just know that it is by far the most popular player race in my game (having just overtaken human).

do you ever ask them about it?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

do you ever ask them about it?

No, this is England, we don't ask personal questions.

I would guess factors like small, lucky, inoffensive, cute and reluctant adventurer are the appeal.