D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Gammadoodler]

Yes the agenda of... making peace and helping ensure people get along. You know, it could be the same level of agenda of seeing two of your neighbors fighting and talking to them about what is wrong and how to resolve it.

That is something I'd expect a race of kind, generous, helpful people to do.

So this is totally preference based, but the way I see halflings, the positivity they bring is a side effect of an intensely agreeable attitude and worldview.

It's not intentional, they just like to have a good time, so if you're with them you tend to have a good time too.

To your point, I could see them being asked to be mediators, and that could be something of a cottage industry for them. But casting them as this almost evangelical force for peace makes them (ironically) a bit too militant for my taste.

 

[Chaosmancer]

From what you've said here and elsewhere you've implied that by definition halflings are therefore irrelevant because it is impossible for halflings to be played more than halflings are.

I'm fairly sure you don't think you mean that - but the 5% threshold you set looks as if it was set after you looked up statistics for halflings and found them just under that

And I look at them and say that's a distortion.

Wasn't it you who dug up the lack of lore in the Realms on halflings and Yolanda? Wasn't it you who dug up just how little they are used in adventures in practice? Lip service has been paid to giving them advantages - but when it comes down to it neither TSR nor WotC have ever really cared about halflings, and especially not in the biggest setting around. Even gnomes have a much better deity in the Realms than halflings do. For that matter gnomes have an actual pantheon of eight deities in the Realms - and yes the halflings have six, but I don't believe the gnomes have ever had the indignity of having their deity demoted to an aspect of someone else - and left with a new chief deity almost entirely lacking in lore other than this event. And back in the greyhawk days the Gnomes had far more lore and detail than Halflings.

Or possibly it's time to give them an actual chance rather than simply saying they are there and that they are common, and stopping there the way the default setting for D&D does.

Short changed, overlooked, and ignored - and still trucking along despite getting mere lip service. It's probably time to actively let halflings have a swing at the bat rather than just send them out into the deep outfield and then complain when they don't hit home runs. The archetype is solid - but nothing's been done with them by TSR or WotC (Eberron being an honourable exception).

Like maybe, adding some lore, altering it somehow to give them the things they lack....

Why does that all sound so familiar

 

[Chaosmancer]

If you are creating random encounter tables and rolling dice to determine which villages survive in your world, this kind of thing might make sense. If you're telling a story, I think it's ok to leave game mechanics out of it. I think it's a mistake to think that analysing the proficiency bonuses and ability modifiers of the inhabitants of a built world makes the world more realistic because... it's not real , neither the inhabitants nor the game mechanics...

If your story needs for a halfling village to repel a band of orcs, make it happen. You're the one telling the story. If Aunt Hattie can chase away a bugbear with a rolling pin singlehandedly, (MToF p.100) an entire village, under the right circumstances, should be able to do alright.

Players interact with the world via the mechanics. If the mechanics tell them that the bugbear shouldn't have had anything to fear from a 1v1 with Hattie, then it is just theater.

Which is fine for something like a tall tale. Works great. But then when it actually starts mattering, like the adventurers helping to rally the town, then I can't just hand wave it away because that makes a better story.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I have run halflings without houseruling their mechanics at all, and the lore is only barely changed to fit my setting: to whit, they have boats and are one of the only races to mint coins. No other changes at all. Of the currently five PCs in the party, three are halflings. We've gone from 1st-7th level. I've had plenty of time to deal with their mechanics and they don't suck mechanically at all.

ah yes, one of the only races to invent money and distribute it. Barely a change at all from the people that are overlooked and don't matter, and especially don't value money (as some posters have claimed)

 

[Chaosmancer]

People like to complain in this thread that "halflings don't even have their own lands! They live with humans!" Are you really saying that there wouldn't be human patrols watching out for raiding bands? Or that halfings can't fund patrols and protectors themselves?

"The humans will protect them" is a really poor defense to make it seem like halflings can protect themselves

Yes, and? Same goes with every other race. Are you going to condemn tieflings for being only 5% more persuasive than humans?

I doubt it.

We also aren't saying that a random tiefling could walk into an orc camp and negotiate the return of the raided products because all tielflings are super silver tongued masters.

Do you really think that no NPC halfling is going to also have proficiency in Stealth?

Yes. Why would they?

 

[Yaarel]

Yes, I agree that they are a magical people that use magic a lot.

Where I disagree is that they use it to the point where nothing they do is non-magical. Where every blacksmith shapes metal by magic, every house is built by magic, every garden is gardened by magic. They aren't that magical

Ok. So we seem to agree, elves are a magical people, and magical really does mean serious magic.

From this common agreement, I take a maximalist view and you are taking a minimalist view.

I am saying, when an elf does something it is never mundane. Your are saying, it is sometimes mundane.



For example, when an elven blacksmith makes a sword, it is always to create a magic item. Otherwise, the elf wouldnt bother. Even simple things like preparing food employ Prestidigitation to make it delicious. Consider "elven chain" armor, the name elven connotes magical. An "elven sword" is a magical sword.

The elves are that magical. They really arent part of the human world.

Damage, hp and stealth are useless if your king is charmed and never fields the army.

On the field of battle the only possible hope you have is that you have the bows to hit them at range. And every single elf can match that, and they have the added advantage of making field works in minutes that takes the human army hours.

So, no, they aren't comparable. Magic gives too many options when used on a large scale.

Even if elves charm a human monarch or take one out by Magic Missile focus fire, the next human in charge is likely to understand what is going on and respond accordingly. Likewise, humans can surprise attack the elves to serious effect.

If the concern is about the Players Handbook classes, Fighter versus Wizard, being balanced with each other, that is a separate issue, that is unrelated to human versus elven culture.

The classes are supposed to be balanced, and for every Fighter player complaining that the Wizard can do too much, there is an equal and opposite Wizard player complaining that the Fighter deals too much damage and the Wizard too few spells at higher levels. The mutual envy suggests some sense of balance. Meanwhile, 5e has made the Fighter and Wizard class more balanced than I have ever seen. The Concentration mechanic forcing only one good spell at a time is PAINFUL to Wizard players, and the scarce spell slot, are probably more balancing that people realize.

In any case. Elves are mages, whether fullcasters or gishes. If the classes are imbalanced, then fix the classes to balance them.

Otherwise, humans need to start studying in the Elf Wizard Academies.

 

[Chaosmancer]

So this is totally preference based, but the way I see halflings, the positivity they bring is a side effect of an intensely agreeable attitude and worldview.

It's not intentional, they just like to have a good time, so if you're with them you tend to have a good time too.

To your point, I could see them being asked to be mediators, and that could be something of a cottage industry for them. But casting them as this almost evangelical force for peace makes them (ironically) a bit too militant for my taste.

Okay, a tone issue I can see.

A cottage industry is fine. In fact, I've been picturing this as starting and snowballing from exactly that. They end up getting asked, being good at it, and they keep getting asked and it builds up into something they do.

I never really thought about it as them setting out to force peace on people, but just going out and being available.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I know, by the way, that I'm going to in the near future start being accused of saying "halflings can't defend themselves" or some other hyperbolic version of Minigiant's argument, so I'd figure I'd get out ahead of it and go ahead and put down my thoughts.

Halflings would be just as fine as the other races, if they have crossbows, training in using them, and some planning for dealing with something like a Gnoll attack.

But, I also want to state that for Humans, Halflings, and Dragonborn, Gnolls are a TERRIFYING enemy. Darkvision and being smarter than a stick means that gnolls will attack at night, when these races have a harder time seeing their enemies. If they are going through darkness, a halfling is likely looking at +1 w/disadvantage against a 15 AC and 22 hp to chew through (about 4 hits). Meanwhile the Gnoll can throw a spear at the 11 AC halfling/human/Dragonborn and kill them in a single attack. An if they get in melee range, they can kill two a turn.

With weapons, some training, and a plan? The village can survive. But if you are relying on hoes and shovels or just thrown rocks? That takes you to needing 5 to 6 hits per gnoll with +1 and very likely disadvantage from range. It is a bad situation for anyone.

The problem I tend to find is that the idea of a halfling town militia is met with derision and scorn, and then the "whataboutisms" of humans and others come, then the accusations of death worlds and it all starts turning into a mess because people can't accept halflings believing in self-defense.

In fairness, this argument also tends to be predicated on halflings' settlements being easy to find, despite the existing lore that suggests otherwise.

Which tends to lead down the road of what is and isn't "realistic" to expect in a D&D setting, with one side producing "proof" and the other side producing reminders that D&D worlds aren't real. It does get a bit messy.

All that said, @Neonchameleon s description of a system of defense seems adequate especially in combination with villages being hard to find.

Also, I'm not sure if there are any rules for it, but I submit that if you are in a dwelling specifically built for a creature smaller than you, you should be rolling with disadvantage (and maybe they should roll with advantage).
Halfling burrows should be deathtraps for orcs, gnolls, etc.

 

[Faolyn]

No.
What I am saying is that.
What some are sauggesting is human patrols will protect halflings for free and halflings don't use money and thus can't pay mercenaries or halflings are folksy and wont have an organized militia or patrol squads anytime someone suggests halflings function like a race logically would in a D&D world.

Absolutely nobody is saying halflings don't use money or won't have a militia.

What people are saying is that halflings prefer treasures that have sentimental value rather than treasures that are worth a lot of gold. And that halflings would have a militia instead of standing army. I mean, they have a canonical god of defense! Of course they would have a militia!

Nope. Halflings hide in barely fortified homes barely under the earth as the orcs steal their sheep then pop up and use the worst range weapon in 5e, the sling, in mass.

What on earth makes you think their homes aren't fortified? They'd have to be, if only to prevent them from caving in whenever a cow walked over them.

No because 5e says there are few fully tieffling villages if any and they live as an underclass in human cities.

What does that have to do with them getting a bonus to Charisma? The exact same level of bonus that halflings gain in Dexterity.

Not enough in number and skill to sneak into a orc camp or gnoll packhouse unnoticed and get back all the stuff they took. These are commoners.

Really? So there are no halflings with class levels in a halfling village. Really? Do you have anything to back that up, or are you just deciding that because it fits your narrative?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Ok. So we seem to agree, elves are a magical people, and magical really does mean serious magic.

From this common agreement, I take a maximalist view and you are taking a minimalist view.

I am saying, when an elf does something it is never mundane. Your are saying, it is sometimes mundane.



For example, when an elven blacksmith makes a sword, it is always to create a magic item. Otherwise, the elf wouldnt bother. Even simple things like preparing food employ Prestidigitation to make it delicious. Consider "elven chain" armor, the name elven connotes magical. An "elven sword" is a magical sword.

The elves are that magical. They really arent part of the human world.

Yeah, that is way too magical for how DnD portrays them (maximal vs minimal). Elves make mundane gear. Otherwise they'd never use mundane gear.

Even if elves charm a human monarch or take one out by Magic Missile focus fire, the next human in charge is likely to understand what is going on and respond accordingly. Likewise, humans can surprise attack the elves to serious effect.

Next one? The king is right there, and making decisions, why would you replace him? If you mean that he died of old age, then sure the next one comes, and the elven glamour bard ambassador comes, plays a dirge and then talks to the new king about continuing the status quo.

If the concern is about the Players Handbook classes, Fighter versus Wizard, being balanced with each other, that is a separate issue, that is unrelated to human versus elven culture.

Nope, it is simply the options available to both. When dealing with soldiers who have between 11 and 20 hp, just the ability for three elven "scouts" to cast sleep on the platoon at night and slit their throats changes a lot about the war. A front-line of archers who thunderwaves an approaching Calvary unit. Two casters to send out fog clouds to cover their escape from under fire.

Magic is solutions, and having it when the other side doesn't gives you a massive advantage. And when reminded that elves do indeed have the same martial traditons on top of that? It becomes a joke.

Otherwise, humans need to start studying in the Elf Wizard Academies.

Which brings me back to my original point.

If you start having elves using magic in statescraft, then everyone needs to use it, because otherwise the advantage is too huge.