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5E Mythic Odysseys of Theros on DNDBeyhond


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darjr

I crit!
That's because the Basic Rules (and SRD 5.0) are free, and the Player's Handbook is a relatively easy dip, and marketing further books this way (toward the DM) results in putting the power back in the hands of the DM to forbid or allow additional character options.

D&D Beyond further supports this model by allowing a DM to get a subscription where they can share certain content with the player group.

D&D books are churned out slow and steady to support whole D&D groups, rather than trying to sell as many books as fast as they can to as many customers as they can (like with the proliferation of 3.5e and 4e splatbooks).
I meant the focus on creating new DMs. Not the dm focus of the book. I know about that.

but those are good points, and are also helpful towards that goal.
 

Undrave

Hero
The entire 5E product line seems to be premised on DM's being the target audience, or converting anyone who buys the books into a DM.

It's a fine philosophy, but they could throw players a bone every once in a while... I'm not asking for 4e style gravy train of new powers every other months, but a Xanathar's worth of content every 3-4 years would be fine... even Xanathar isn't player only.
 

Shroomy

Adventurer
It's a fine philosophy, but they could throw players a bone every once in a while... I'm not asking for 4e style gravy train of new powers every other months, but a Xanathar's worth of content every 3-4 years would be fine... even Xanathar isn't player only.

Given the proliferation of UAs over the past few months, we'll be seeing a Xanathar's type book in the near future. I would venture to say it's likely the 2020 Q4 release.
 

Undrave

Hero
Given the proliferation of UAs over the past few months, we'll be seeing a Xanathar's type book in the near future. I would venture to say it's likely the 2020 Q4 release.

I sure hope so... It's not like every class out there interests me, and not every subclass for the classes that do interest me so I'd like some more options in a single package.
 

We're in the middle of a pandemic. Nothing is getting done right, or quickly, ANYWHERE. Might be worth keeping in mind.

Thanks for this information which I surely didn't know or account for whatsoever. :p

Also whilst I agree re: quickly (we're operating maybe 5-30% slower in my department, depending on the task), I disagree re: right. Nothing in my business is being done "wrong" because of this (law firm), unless we count using Zoom for business purposes at all, which I might. That said, doing this "wrong" would be okay, but they didn't even do that.

They've been "working on" the features to allow them to do stuff like Supernatural Gifts properly for over nine months, according to them. Over a month ago, they said it was all in place, and they'd be able to do Character Feature Variants, Dragonmarks, and the stuff in Theros properly.

None of that has happened, and there's been no explanation as to why, or any timelines given. Indeed with a lot of this stuff they've just said they "want" to do it, not even that they definitely will.

Re: the two potential solutions, for Supernatural Gifts, I got an answer out of the devs, but it was entirely unsatisfactory. Likewise for races.

Specifically they said that they considered doing the Gifts as Feats for now, but decided not to in case someone thought that they were real Feats, which seems like a total cop-out to me (you could easily put wording saying "NOT A FEAT" at the top of them), and is, to my mind, obviously prioritizing keeping things neat and corporate over making things actually work.

With races, it was worse - he said that with mechanically identical races, they don't ever do separate entries, which is just not true, as it appears Eberron and Exandria Orcs are identical, mechanically (if not, they're so similar I can't spot the difference at a glance), yet have entirely separate entries. So apparently Centaurs/Minotaurs will be from Ravnica for the foreseeable future, like it or not. Which is obviously ludicrous when they could just copy the race, fix the text, and rename it to say "Centaur of Theros" (the format they used with the Orcs - Orc of Exandria, Orc of Eberron). I mean, I can do that, it just doesn't work as well or display to players the same way.

That's what I was speaking to.

That said, I don't know what happens when you want to buy, say, just the Triton from MOT. Would it give you just the Triton in the game rules > races? And if so, what race features would it give? I would assume if it's giving you a portion of the MOT chapter, you'd be able to see that it has Darkvision and can't ignore all the deep underwater effects, but if it's just giving you access to the Triton as integrated into the game rules > races section of DDB, then I would assume it would have the older Volo's rules for the race (no Darkvision, does ignore deep underwater environmental effects).

Interesting question. Pretty sure the way it works is, if you buy just the race, you get just the race in the character generator and "races". Which would mean the non-specific Triton from Volos. I don't think you'll get any text from the MOT chapter.

Specifically with the Triton they modified it so the Volo's one has Darkvision too. They claim WotC said this was the right thing to do, and an "errata". So the stats will be the same, the lore will be from Volos. Same if you purchased the Centaur from MOT - you will get the Centaur from Ravnica, and so on.

It's er... not a great decision.
 
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THEMNGMNT

Adventurer
Thanks for this information which I surely didn't know or account for whatsoever. :p

They've been "working on" the features to allow them to do stuff like Supernatural Gifts properly for over nine months, according to them. Over a month ago, they said it was all in place, and they'd be able to do Character Feature Variants, Dragonmarks, and the stuff in Theros properly.

None of that has happened, and there's been no explanation as to why, or any timelines given. Indeed with a lot of this stuff they've just said they "want" to do it, not even that they definitely will.
I'm sure the pandemic and economic depression has no impact on their ability to commit to features or timing.
 

Zaukrie

New Publisher
Thanks for this information which I surely didn't know or account for whatsoever. :p

Also whilst I agree re: quickly (we're operating maybe 5-30% slower in my department, depending on the task), I disagree re: right. Nothing in my business .........................

It's er... not a great decision.

doing it as feats is lazy, and will result in problems long term. Do it as a separate thing, and do it right........I speak as someone that has spent most of his career working to undo things like this at great cost to IT shops......
 


Marandahir

Crown-Forester
Thanks for this information which I surely didn't know or account for whatsoever. :p

Also whilst I agree re: quickly (we're operating maybe 5-30% slower in my department, depending on the task), I disagree re: right. Nothing in my business is being done "wrong" because of this (law firm), unless we count using Zoom for business purposes at all, which I might. That said, doing this "wrong" would be okay, but they didn't even do that.

They've been "working on" the features to allow them to do stuff like Supernatural Gifts properly for over nine months, according to them. Over a month ago, they said it was all in place, and they'd be able to do Character Feature Variants, Dragonmarks, and the stuff in Theros properly.

None of that has happened, and there's been no explanation as to why, or any timelines given. Indeed with a lot of this stuff they've just said they "want" to do it, not even that they definitely will.

Re: the two potential solutions, for Supernatural Gifts, I got an answer out of the devs, but it was entirely unsatisfactory. Likewise for races.

Specifically they said that they considered doing the Gifts as Feats for now, but decided not to in case someone thought that they were real Feats, which seems like a total cop-out to me (you could easily put wording saying "NOT A FEAT" at the top of them), and is, to my mind, obviously prioritizing keeping things neat and corporate over making things actually work.
I'd love to know where "he" said all these things; I certainly missed them. But I'm also used to D&D Beyond promising new features and failing to deliver. The features they have tend to be good, and it's worlds better than the D&D Insider tools from 4e, but I'm paying double and/or an expensive monthly billing for the same material I'd have in the books, just integrated (rather than material+magazines dlc), so I should be getting more for my money, yeah?

With races, it was worse - he said that with mechanically identical races, they don't ever do separate entries, which is just not true, as it appears Eberron and Exandria Orcs are identical, mechanically (if not, they're so similar I can't spot the difference at a glance), yet have entirely separate entries. So apparently Centaurs/Minotaurs will be from Ravnica for the foreseeable future, like it or not. Which is obviously ludicrous when they could just copy the race, fix the text, and rename it to say "Centaur of Theros" (the format they used with the Orcs - Orc of Exandria, Orc of Eberron). I mean, I can do that, it just doesn't work as well or display to players the same way.

Interesting question. Pretty sure the way it works is, if you buy just the race, you get just the race in the character generator and "races". Which would mean the non-specific Triton from Volos. I don't think you'll get any text from the MOT chapter.

Specifically with the Triton they modified it so the Volo's one has Darkvision too. They claim WotC said this was the right thing to do, and an "errata". So the stats will be the same, the lore will be from Volos. Same if you purchased the Centaur from MOT - you will get the Centaur from Ravnica, and so on.

It's er... not a great decision.
Ah, I now see that they treated the Triton race as having the MOT stats but the VGM flavor text. I also see that if I go to Sourcebooks > VGM > Chapter 2 > Triton, it has the MOT stats. This is therefore separate from the Orc issue where VGM hasn't been errata'd everywhere to match the E:RLW & EGW stats/features, and instead they just lazily added "Orc of Eberron" and "Orc of Exandria" as separate races in the tools, as you said above (I'm NOT happy with the result; just choose a tact and stick with it. I understand Feral Tieflings are difficult because they have completely different ability scores from Asmodeans, but Orcs? They should be formatted like Tritons as you've so graciously corrected me).

At least buying Triton alone doesn't gimp you out of Darkvision, but it is a problem of not being reconciled with official eratta. The most recent VGM errata, per the April 2020 Sage Advice Compendium, is from 2017. So WotC told Wikia/Fandom/Cursed/DDB to go ahead and errata the Triton but didn't give us book owners the errata on the Triton. Ugh.

I would hope it's because they're preparing a larger errata for VGM that fixes the Triton, the Orc, and maybe, hopefully, gosh darn I really hope, the Kobold.

But I'm guessing it's just an oversight.
 

I'd love to know where "he" said all these things; I certainly missed them. But I'm also used to D&D Beyond promising new features and failing to deliver. The features they have tend to be good, and it's worlds better than the D&D Insider tools from 4e, but I'm paying double and/or an expensive monthly billing for the same material I'd have in the books, just integrated (rather than material+magazines dlc), so I should be getting more for my money, yeah?

Somewhere in here: Mythic Odysseys of Theros - Issues and Support Thread - Bugs & Support - D&D Beyond General - D&D Beyond Forums - D&D Beyond

And yes, that's my feeling. If I was paying 30-50% off, and the subscription was basically token (like $20/year, like Nintendo's online sub, say), I wouldn't be hugely bothered. Annoyed, but I could see it. However we're paying 100% costs (barring coupons, but they seem to have stopped doing those, now they have a decent-sized audience), and the subscription is significant. As such customer needs should be prioritized, but in fact it looks like monetization of new features (selling imaginary dice, for example) and convenience for the Beyond team are now being prioritized, and they're avoiding making promises about stuff they should really be making promises about.

Ah, I now see that they treated the Triton race as having the MOT stats but the VGM flavor text. I also see that if I go to Sourcebooks > VGM > Chapter 2 > Triton, it has the MOT stats. This is therefore separate from the Orc issue where VGM hasn't been errata'd everywhere to match the E:RLW & EGW stats/features, and instead they just lazily added "Orc of Eberron" and "Orc of Exandria" as separate races in the tools, as you said above (I'm NOT happy with the result; just choose a tact and stick with it. I understand Feral Tieflings are difficult because they have completely different ability scores from Asmodeans, but Orcs? They should be formatted like Tritons as you've so graciously corrected me).

There are actually three kinds of Orcs. Volos, Eberron, and Exandria, so there should be at least two different entries for them, because the Volos kind have different stats and a different ability. The issue you seem to be missing though is that the minimalist approach leads to incorrect lore. It's not "lazy" to replicate them - it's the right thing to do. Ravnica Centaurs and Minotaurs have extremely weird and specific lore, which is completely inappropriate for general usage, and completely inappropriate for Theros.

At least buying Triton alone doesn't gimp you out of Darkvision, but it is a problem of not being reconciled with official eratta. The most recent VGM errata, per the April 2020 Sage Advice Compendium, is from 2017. So WotC told Wikia/Fandom/Cursed/DDB to go ahead and errata the Triton but didn't give us book owners the errata on the Triton. Ugh.

I would hope it's because they're preparing a larger errata for VGM that fixes the Triton, the Orc, and maybe, hopefully, gosh darn I really hope, the Kobold.

Yeah I wouldn't hold your breath on that. I'm pretty sure that is basically a case of Beyond talking WotC into making an errata. I think the Eberron and Exandria Orcs will remain separate from the Volos Orc.
 

Wow, and to think I was THIS close to buying it digitally as the wait for the physical copy was gonna be annoying with the delay.

I think I'll just wait and get the physical copy.

This is exactly why I haven't invested a subscription or even use the free version anymore. I buy hard copies and just use them to game, not worth the aggravation in my opinion to go digital. I have been very underwhelmed with anything WotC has put out digitally since the 2E core rules program.
 

dave2008

Legend
This is exactly why I haven't invested a subscription or even use the free version anymore. I buy hard copies and just use them to game, not worth the aggravation in my opinion to go digital. I have been very underwhelmed with anything WotC has put out digitally since the 2E core rules program.
Not sure what your suggesting. I got the free subscription to DnD Beyond and then bought Theros for $29.99 (I think). It is way more functional than a PDF and is the complete book. Not sure what there is to be underwhelmed at personally, can you clarify.
 

Not sure what your suggesting. I got the free subscription to DnD Beyond and then bought Theros for $29.99 (I think). It is way more functional than a PDF and is the complete book. Not sure what there is to be underwhelmed at personally, can you clarify.

Here is just one instance Ive had with D&D Beyond. I ran into an issue where I had to re-input information from previous levels when updating characters. I submitted a bug report, or whatever you want to call it and never got a response. I prefer physical books and cant justify the cost of re-buying a book to make characters on D&D Beyond.
 

dave2008

Legend
Here is just one instance Ive had with D&D Beyond. I ran into an issue where I had to re-input information from previous levels when updating characters. I submitted a bug report, or whatever you want to call it and never got a response. I prefer physical books and cant justify the cost of re-buying a book to make characters on D&D Beyond.
OK, your talking about additional functionality, thought you were just talking about the book digitally. I don't use those bits. Also, I'm guessing you know that DnD Beyond is not owned or run by WotC?
 

OK, your talking about additional functionality, thought you were just talking about the book digitally. I don't use those bits. Also, I'm guessing you know that DnD Beyond is not owned or run by WotC?

Yes I know WotC doesnt own or run Beyond.

Wasnt the character generator for 4E updated with new book releases and you had access as long as you subscribed?
 


Teemu

Adventurer
Yes I know WotC doesnt own or run Beyond.

Wasnt the character generator for 4E updated with new book releases and you had access as long as you subscribed?
The 4e online tools only had the rules, not the flavor and lore (for the most part). So the tools didn’t exactly replace the books. No art, no descriptions of places, etc. Just the classes, powers, monsters, etc.

DnDBeyond isn’t directly comparable.
 

The 4e online tools only had the rules, not the flavor and lore (for the most part). So the tools didn’t exactly replace the books. No art, no descriptions of places, etc. Just the classes, powers, monsters, etc.

DnDBeyond isn’t directly comparable.

I was thinking of what you got with the subscription for PC creation between the two editions. But you are correct it probably isn't fair to compare them.
 


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