D&D General Naming the Barbarian? [added battlerager]

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

So yeah, Warrior is good.

If I were to choose between naming the Barbarian or Fighter the "Warrior" I would choose the Fighter.

 

[jgsugden]

Artificer - Artifice is trickery. This is basically calling it a class of liars.
Barbarian - A derogatory insult, apparently.
Bard - As discussed derogatory origins. Unacceptable.
Cleric - Simultaneously administrative and coming from a caste of people that performed brutal religious persecution. Nope.
Druid - Pagan worship is seen as wrong in many modern cultures. We can't celebrate it this way, can we?
Fighter - Only good for violence? Sets the wrong tone for a hero to focus only on violence.
Monk - Have you ever looked into the Venn Diagram of monks and slavery?
Paladin - Speaking of religious persecution … "defenders of the faith" by eliminating other faiths.
Ranger - Hobos. Your hero is a hobo. Seriously?
Sorcerer - As used in the Bible, this is specifically tied to using evil spirits. More unacceptable naughty, naughty diction.
Warlock - More pagans, and these are tied specifically to DEVIL WORSHIP?!?!?!?!? Didn't the 1980s teach us anything?
Wizard - We can't let the KKK terminology thrive in our game anymore.

 

[Azzy]

From a 16c. list of historical laws of Scottish kings, in Sir James Balfour, "Practicks: Or, a System of the More Ancient Law of Scotland," 1754:

Or just do a google search for 'bard etymology'.

I already did. The word bard predates 1754, BTW—it comes from Proto-Celtic "bardos" and passes through to Old Irish and to Scottish Gaelic. In Ireland, bards were one of two classes of professional poets (the other being the higher-ranked fili) and often worked for chiefs and kings, are featured in Irish myth and legends. Romans also used "bardus" (a Latinized version of the Gaulish word), to describe Gaulish singers and poets. The recognized profession of bard lasted until in Ireland untin the mid-17th century and in Scotland until the early 18th century.

So, your mid-18th century Scottish law postdates the actual profession's demise. The word was in use without negative conotation long before that law ever came to be. So,this derrogatory usage of the word was limited to Scotland and only from some point in the 18th-century (I couldn't find any details of prior perjorative usage aside from an unattested reference to the 16th-century in Wikipedia) until, at the latest, when Sir Walter Scott reclaimed it sometime during the late 18th/early19th century. So, um, no. "Bard" has not been a derogatorry term "Since it was invented, and for about 300 years after that until the term got romanticized.".

I would apologize for the snark, but...

I'm not your internet.

No, but if you make an assertion , the onus is upon you to support that assertion.

 

[Bacon Bits]

For those struggling with 18th century spelling, this:

All vagabundis, fulis, bardis, ſcudlaris, and ſiclike idill pepill, ſall be brint on the cheek, and ſcourgit with wandis, except thay find ſum craft to win thair living.

Translates to:

All vagabonds, fools, bards, scudlars, and suchlike idle people, shall be burnt on the cheek, and scourged with wands, except they that find some craft to win their living.

It's also worth knowing that lords wanted their peasants to work the land because then they could sell the crops, which meant taxes, tariffs, paid rent, and so on. The production of goods from the land was how lords made money, so they made laws that made wandering around and not working the land as illegal as feasible. The lords didn't like this sort of person because they didn't make the lord money. I'm not so sure the same would be true for the average person.

Or just do a google search for 'bard etymology'. I'm not your internet.

I mean, if you're going to make a claim it's generally considered good form to back it up. It's your job to present your arguments and evidence, not the job of your audience. I do agree that simply saying "citation needed" is kind of rude, but it's not like this was sealioning or something.

Listen, folks-who-have-taken-exception-to-a-historical-fact, it was a joke post pointing out that most class names don't directly tell you what they do. It's a true statement that if you got called a bard in 16th century Scotland, you were not being called a nice name, but that's not the message of the post, just a historical aside to enjoy.

And yet they changed the name of "thief" to "rogue" because people inferred that thieves had to steal stuff all the time. And there are still people who thing the word "ranger" is somehow related to archery; it's so widespread that it's common for video games to have the ranger class specialize in archery and have no wilderness or travel skill at all.

 

[Morrus]

Artificer - Artifice is trickery. This is basically calling it a class of liars.
Barbarian - A derogatory insult, apparently.
Bard - As discussed derogatory origins. Unacceptable.
Cleric - Simultaneously administrative and coming from a caste of people that performed brutal religious persecution. Nope.
Druid - Pagan worship is seen as wrong in many modern cultures. We can't celebrate it this way, can we?
Fighter - Only good for violence? Sets the wrong tone for a hero to focus only on violence.
Monk - Have you ever looked into the Venn Diagram of monks and slavery?
Paladin - Speaking of religious persecution … "defenders of the faith" by eliminating other faiths.
Ranger - Hobos. Your hero is a hobo. Seriously?
Sorcerer - As used in the Bible, this is specifically tied to using evil spirits. More unacceptable naughty, naughty diction.
Warlock - More pagans, and these are tied specifically to DEVIL WORSHIP?!?!?!?!? Didn't the 1980s teach us anything?
Wizard - We can't let the KKK terminology thrive in our game anymore.

You've clearly taken some kind of personal offense to anybody suggesting that there might be a better name for the barbarian class than the barbarian. I don't know why. But drop it, please. Either join in the conversation or don't, but it's time to stop telling people they're not allowed to have the conversation.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Yeah. The more I think about it, the more I think Warrior might be a good name. I will change my vote to that.

The name Berserker links it to closely with the Path of the Berserker primal path, which is already its own thing. A person that loses themselves in a mindless rage is different than using anger and rage as a way to fuel your fighting. A Warrior could go berserk, or they could just use focused anger and rage, or use extreme discipline for that matter.

So yeah, Warrior is good.

I like it too.

Warrior for less professional, more instinctual, fighter-types
Fighter for those with fighting styles and more training.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Artificer - Artifice is trickery. This is basically calling it a class of liars.
Barbarian - A derogatory insult, apparently.
Bard - As discussed derogatory origins. Unacceptable.
Cleric - Simultaneously administrative and coming from a caste of people that performed brutal religious persecution. Nope.
Druid - Pagan worship is seen as wrong in many modern cultures. We can't celebrate it this way, can we?
Fighter - Only good for violence? Sets the wrong tone for a hero to focus only on violence.
Monk - Have you ever looked into the Venn Diagram of monks and slavery?
Paladin - Speaking of religious persecution … "defenders of the faith" by eliminating other faiths.
Ranger - Hobos. Your hero is a hobo. Seriously?
Sorcerer - As used in the Bible, this is specifically tied to using evil spirits. More unacceptable naughty, naughty diction.
Warlock - More pagans, and these are tied specifically to DEVIL WORSHIP?!?!?!?!? Didn't the 1980s teach us anything?
Wizard - We can't let the KKK terminology thrive in our game anymore.

Artificer means "a skilled craftsman or inventor." Not a class of liars.
Barbarian has been/is still often used as an insult, which is why this thread exists. Berserker/Ravager/Battlerager is less problematic than Barbarian.
Bard has derogatory origins, but isn't really used that way anymore. Even if it was a problem, which it isn't, they could do Minstrel or Lyrist.
"Cleric" is not a problem. You're pretending like it is.
Druid - That isn't a problem and your statement is ridiculous. Naming a class "druid" isn't supporting paganism and modern world's view of paganism is not relevant.
Fighter is a stupid name, but your argument is stupid, too. D&D doesn't support violence anymore than chess does. I would change "Fighter" to "Warrior" but not because there's any problematic elements of the name, it's just a bad name.
Monk - that argument is not relevant, but Monk could easily be changed to "Martial-Artist."
Paladin - Here's the definition of paladin for you.
Ranger - You go back and forth between saying we can't call a class a certain name because it's offensive and then start making offensive statements. Also, D&D's rangers originated from Aragorn, if my information is correct.
Sorcerer - That's not the definition of sorcerer, though.
Warlocks - Yes, the 1980's taught us that people who were misinformed about the game overreacted. D&D is popular enough that this isn't a valid concern anymore.
Wizards - The term "wizard" is not owned by white supremacists.

In short, you're grasping at straws for apparently no reason. Most of the class names in D&D don't need to change, and Barbarian's name probably won't change, so probably have nothing to worry about. Even if it was, that's not the end of the world or the hobby.

 

[CleverNickName]

I didn't really need a deep-dive into history, literature, or etymology to decide that I prefer the name "berserker" to "barbarian." Opinions are funny like that.

The barbarian's Rage ability might be its trademark, but its high hit points, damage reduction, and other defensive abilities are nothing to sneeze at. They can take huge amounts of punishment and still keep on fighting. So maybe another good name to consider would be "Stalwart." Or "Juggernaut," even.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Juggernaut

Good idea.

It reinforce the idea that they are really hard to knock out. I'm not a big fan of ''Rage'' as the term used for their main feature, since it seems to indicate an increased level of aggression, but the 5e rage isnt really about the damage buff, which is kinda minimal when compared to the defensive bonus it gives.

 

[MGibster]

I think Warlock might be the most accurate class name in D&D at least within the context of a belief in witches during the early modern period of Europe. The who idea of diabolism, that witches gain their power by making a deal with the devil, is pretty much the core concept of the Warlock class.