Need a broken test!

[Limper]

Made a couple of flavorish changes to the Blindness spell... did I break it?

Thief of Vision
Necromancy
Level: Wiz/ Sorc 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: short 25 + 5/level
Targets: One creature
Duration: Permanant
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

This nasty little charm conjours forth from beyond the Pale of death a pair of spectral Ravens.
The Ravens make a Touch Attack at the Casters BAB if they hit the foe is blinded (as per the standard blindness spell).
It painful to the subject and to any who view the event the ravens peck the targets eyes and leave them white and blind after. The Effects can be dispelled, cured, or removed with a remove curse.

 

[the Jester]

Well, this should DEFINITELY give a saving throw.

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Otherwise it's better than an 8th-level spell (power word blind).

I like the idea, though; why not simply make it a variant of the blindness spell? All you're really adding is some visual... uh... effects. No pun intended.

 

[Limper]

Have you seen the lvl1 MoF Druid spell.... Acid Spittel? Its also no save but you have to hit.

The to hit instead of a save is well established in the rules, thus I did it that way.

PW: Blind effects ALOT of targets doesn't it? Or is my 2e memory kicking in?

 

[Valmur_Dwur]

Sorry but it is broken as written Change the save to fort and make the duration permanent(D) and you have a short range blindness spell If you want to keep it this way it's at least a 6th level spell. I agree with the Jester just make the guy have that be his spell Good for a name I would think

 

[Cloudgatherer]

MoF is a bad example to draw from....

Ball Lightning, Firebrand, and the pair of spells that make one invincible from physical attacks for a few rounds...

Needs a save, or a few levels higher.

 

[Geoff Watson]

Way too powerful.

Change the duration, to something other than Instantaneous. Instantaneous means that it can't be dispelled or removed.

Changing a save to ranged touch is a big advantage.

Just use the normal Blindness spell, and change the special effects to what you want.

Geoff.

 

[the Jester]

Have you seen the lvl1 MoF Druid spell.... Acid Spittel? Its also no save but you have to hit.

The to hit instead of a save is well established in the rules, thus I did it that way.

PW: Blind effects ALOT of targets doesn't it? Or is my 2e memory kicking in?

Uh... the touch attack is EASY to hit with. A save is not always HARD to make.

I don't think you'll find anyone around here who thinks a variant lightning bolt that requires a ranged touch against each potential target but doesn't allow a save is balanced (assuming that's the only change you make).

No, I haven't seen Acid Spittle, but I haven't looked in MoF at all. In my experience, anything from FR is more likely to break the balance beam than core stuff. It seems (generally) not well-playtested, but I guess in a FR game where _everything_ is powered up, there's a whole new concept of "balance"...

You're right about PWB affecting multiple targets, but it still only lasts a little while unless your total hp is 50 or less. And it maxes out at 200 hp. This baby can get a critter with 1000000 hp with no save; if it doesn't have SR it's screwed.

I notice you changed a few things about it, but I still think it's way overpowered without a save. Think about it: is there ANY reason anyone in their right mind would choose blindness over this? Slightly longer range, sure; but who will choose that over no saving throw? Not me, not your villain, not likely anyone. If it's hands down better than other spells of its level, I'd say it's overpowered.

No save = MUCH higher level.

 

[da chicken]

The spell is not broken from a mechanical sense. Blindness/deafness is a 2nd level spell with a similar effect. Save -> Touch AC is pretty standard, too. I'm not even sure that the duration is off, considering that most NPCs don't live longer than 20 rounds.

Still, the fact of the matter is that Touch AC is much easier to hit than Fort save. And high Fort save is very common (Blindness/Deafness works just as well as Touch AC against creatures with poor Fort saves, like wizards and rogues).

One test for going from save -> no save is that the spell should function as if the save had already occured. Compare fireball (10d6 max Reflex for half) to ice storm (5d6 no save). With ice storm you "assume" everyone makes the save so you can deny one completely.

Still, you're not completely denying a save. You're switching the defense mechanism from saving throw to (touch) AC. That, coupled with removing the Fort save, actually makes the spell more valuable against Fighters, whearas blindness/deafness is often pointless against them. If this were a damaging spell, I'd go to about 3/4 to 2/3 power, as touch AC is slightly better than saving throw. But you can't really do that with blindness, unless you use some wonky concealment modifiers (like making the creature act like he was perpetually in a fog cloud).

As it stands, I would do one of the following:

1. Make it a 3rd level spell.
2. Reduce the duration to 1 round/level.
3. Make the creature act as if perpetually within a fog cloud. Change the name to shadowfog or nightfog or inkeye or somesuch.

 

[Al]

Save to Touch AC: Standard?!

Save -> Touch AC is pretty standard, too.

Is it now?

Otto's Irresistable Dance as compared with Hold Person: OID has a Touch attack, Hold Person has a save. Otto's makes them dance for d4+1 rounds (average 3.5), Hold Person makes them PARALYSED (i.e. coup de grace fodder) for 1 round/level (i.e. minimum 5 for sor/wiz). OID is 8th level, HP is 3rd. Save to touch AC is far from standard, especially if the level stays constant.

I'd put it at eighth level, in line with Power Word: Blind. The duration of this is better, and it has no HP cap, but a ranged touch attack is required. Whether a ranged touch balances duration and lack of HP cap is questionable, so this spell should be *at least* eighth level, and powerful for its level. It would not be totally out-of-league at 9th level.

 

[Forrester]

I concur. Touch attacks are no substitute for saving throws, regardless of what some published munchkin designers out there might think. At *least* a 4th level spell, at one round/level. Making someone blind in combat is pretty damn strong -- especially fighter types.