Need Clarification - Flat-Footed

[DarrenGMiller]

I have ready the long thread I found with the search feature regarding the first round of combat and being flat-footed until you reach your place in the initiative order, but I think the rules contradict themselves on this issue. So, is there a definitive answer regarding being flat-footed in round 1 until you reach your initiative?

Please help, as this has become a serious point of debate in my campaign and both sides can quote the rules to support their position.

If I am aware before my opponent, am I flat-footed in round 1 until my initiative? (or vice versa)

DM

 

[glass]

As I understand it, in plain English terms, you are flat footed from the beginning of combat until you get to have a go.

As soon as it is your turn, whether it is in round 1 or a surprise round, you are no longer flat-footed (delaying or readying count as having your turn).


glass.

 

[Goolpsy]

look at it this way. You sense the mage coming from behind (you're prepared and ready for action) but unfortunatly he is faster than you, and able to shoot a fireball before you get to really get stable and into position... you turn, and get hit...

 

[Thanee]

You are flat-footed until your first action in the combat comes up.

For example:

You get surprised by a hidden attacker.

Surprise Round: You are surprised and cannot act. You are flat-footed.
First Round: You have initiative 10, your opponent (who surprised you) has initiative 14. You are still flat-footed on your opponent's turn (14). You are no longer flat-footed once your initiative (10) comes up.

Other example:

No surprise round, you and your opponent are aware of each other.

First Round: You have initiative 10, your opponent has initiative 14. You are flat-footed on your opponent's turn (14). You are no longer flat-footed once your initiative (10) comes up.

The initiative in the first round represents the reaction time. If you have a lower result, you react slower than your opponent and so you are still unable to defend properly in that second. Once you are able to act, your combat instincts take over and you begin dodging the attacks.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Infiniti2000]

You are flat-footed until your first action in the combat comes up.

Or until you are forced to make a Balance check and have less than 5 ranks.

 

[Egres]

Or until you are forced to make a Balance check and have less than 5 ranks.

Or until someone uses its Flick of the Wrist or Raptor's School feat against you.

 

[Thanee]

That's a different kind of flat-footed.

Bye
Thanee

 

[MichaelH]

If I am aware before my opponent, am I flat-footed in round 1 until my initiative? (or vice versa)

Awareness determines surprise. If you are aware of your opponent but your opponent is not aware of you, you get a surprise round in which to act while your opponent does not. Your opponent is flat-footed. After the surprise round, the initiative roll determines the order of action. If you beat your opponent's initiative, your opponent remains flat-footed while you act. If your opponent beats your initiative, you are not flat-footed because you have already acted in the combat during the surprise round.

If both you and your opponent are aware of one another, or if neither of you are aware, initiative determines who acts first, and you are flat-footed until your turn.

 

[dcollins]

Here's the first part of the "Combat" section from the SRD:

COMBAT I (BASICS)

HOW COMBAT WORKS
Combat is cyclical; everybody acts in turn in a regular cycle of rounds. Combat follows this sequence:
1. Each combatant starts out flat-footed. Once a combatant acts, he or she is no longer flat-footed....

 

[DarrenGMiller]

So, please let me know if this is correct:


The PC's enter a dungeon corridor and just around a corner, there are 6 bugbears on guard duty, expecting intruders. The party comes down the corridor not attempting to move silently, with the Dwarf clanking along like a Sherman tank. The bugbears hear and become aware. As their "surprise round" they draw weapons, move into defensive formation, etc. Now, the party turns the corner and sees them. Both sides roll for initiative. The PC Rogue beats the Bugbears on initiative. Are the Bugbears still flat-footed, since they were aware of the party and got a "surprise round" to prepare?

Or...

A Chimera is concealed in a room beyond an opening in the wall in the room the PC's are in. There is a tapestry blocking the opening, so the party does not see him. As his surprise round, he moves into the room the PC's are in, dramatically clawing the tapestry out of his way. Now the PC's roll for initiative and the Rogue beats the Chimera. Is the Chimera flat-footed until his initiative, even though he was aware of the party?

I need to know. The rules say that you are flat-footed until your first initiative in a "regular combat round." But they also specify several circumstances of when you are / are not flat-footed. These examples make it clear to me at least, that if you were aware first, then you get to act in the surprise round, as determined by the DM. Thus, you are not flat-footed after you act in the surprise round. These two interpretations conflict BADLY!!! Two of my players are on the side of the single sentence in the PHB that states the first interpretation (actions don't negate flat-footedness until the first regular combat round). Another player and I are in favor of the second interpretation (actions before the other side is aware count to avoid flat-footedness). With the first interpretation, the Rogue has become a combat machine in round 1, going master thrower and catching everything at its flat-footed AC, making it possible for the PC Fighter and Barbarian to take the opponent out almost as soon as they act.

Please help resolve this!

DM