Need help building a Cleric (or other spellcaster)

Mirron

First Post
My GM is of the opinion that spellcasters are weak. Normally, I woudn't be asking this, but he encourages min/maxing, so I see no reason why not. I want help building a Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, or Wizard. My race has to be Human, I believe there is no Multiclassing or Prestige Classes, and it's Player's Guide only. Anyone have any advice on how to do this? So long as it's in the Player's Guide, I should be solid.

Thank you for all the help I receive. :)
 

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Just make a straight Druid. Cleric's good, too, but the lack of non-spell class features might get boring after a while. With Druid, at least have the joy of rummaging through the Monster Manual for new "toys" each level up. :) Unless by player's guide only you mean you can't use the monster manual. Which would be odd, since it's impossible to ever have a familiar or animal companion or paladin mount, then. Not to mention, magic items are in the Dungeon Master's Guide...

Are you aware of The Hypertext d20 SRD (v3.5 d20 System Reference Document) :: d20srd.org ? It has nearly all the rules info you could need. Also, how new are you to D&D? If you're completely inexperienced with spellcasting, I'll help you make a sorcerer, they're a lot simpler to create and manage.
 

I'm plenty experienced with being 3.5. I used to be a Psion, but we never got very up in ranks.

Anyways, I have experience with the game, but I want to be... optimal. I can play a normal guy easy, but from what I've heard, this guy pulls no punches. I'm just wondering what would be ideal spells to pick, domains, feats, that sort of thing. Since my options are limited, I like knowing in advance what to do.
 

Welcome to the boards!

Spellcasters may be weak in the first few levels, but once past that initial stage, they dominate the game. Magic makes the world go 'round...and they make the magic.

Sorcerer:

This thread has a nice list of spells broken down by level- some will be from sources other than the PHB, of course:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/162073-sorcerers-spell-list.html


Wizards:

The worst HD, the worst BAB, and the worst AC. And with a single, well placed Sleep spell, they can effectively end an encounter.

If you have a few $ to spend, pick up a copy of The Power Gamer's 3.5 Wizard Strategy Guide, and your DM will never think of spellcasters as weak again.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Strategy-Dungeons-Dragons-Fantasy-Roleplaying/dp/0976808501]Amazon.com: The Power Gamer's 3.5 Wizard Strategy Guide (Dungeons & Dragons d20 3.5 Fantasy Roleplaying) (9780976808503): Goodman Games Staff: Books[/ame]


Druids:

They can be quite devastating when run well. The summons and animal companion add to the # of allies in the party. Druids have decent weapons. Entangle? In the right environment, that spell can dominate an encounter.

See Post #10 in this thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/261004-players-who-just-goofs.html#post4900032

Over time, they have a flexibility and durability few classes can match.


Clerics:

They have medium BAB and can cast their spells in Heavy armor. They can buff themselves or others. They turn undead. Barring a PC concept that drops their armor proficiencies or the like- things that may happen if you have access to books besides the PHB- they are NEVER a weak class. Give a Cleric the War domain and start giving him Fighter feats, and you'll start to see where the term CoDzilla comes from.*

*Its from Cleric or Druid (God)zilla
 

It's precisely because of CODzilla that I came here. I'm hoping to find a very powerful Cleric or Druid build, with as much help as possible. Mainly because my DM thinks that spellcasters are suitable only for support roles such as healing and utility spells. So, I want to do what I can to prove him wrong.

Given that the last campaign he had (or so I heard) was also incredibly harsh, I'm not taking any chances.

Mainly, I'm wondering what feats and spells would be wise early on. Hoping someone can point me to a list of powerful spells, feats, and possibly domains. Domains not needed if I go Druid, of course.
 

Druids rock the battlefloor as soon as they reach level 8. Wildshape into large animals with some nice buffs... Have a look at the Unearthed Arcana Druid variants, Wis to AC or rage are great especially in animal form.
 

*edit* I didn't read the OP very well.

Go Druid. It's the most optimal choice of the spellcasters at any level.
 
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Anyway...do you think you'll actually level up much? You mention playing a psion before but never getting up there in rank. Because frequently lost in the hysteric levels to which people scream out "spell casters are Borken!!!1!1!" is that at the first few levels...casters really are weak and underpowered. Useful still for spells to shut down enemies for a turn and such, sure. But pretty clearly inferior to a Fighter. If your DM plans to keep the game to the first 3 levels, you'll have a hard time proving him wrong. I'd say it's a futile effort to even try. You could throw out all your spells quickly to look stronger. But then he'd probably just have you guys get attacked 3 times during the night just to "prove" you suck. Furthermore, Druid is extremely weak and hard to play until level 5-6, at least if you're building for the futur rather than the present (low str and dex since they won't matter later on). So I guess I won't even go further suggesting that.

Cleric is the most survivable of the 4 main casters thanks largely to armor proficiencies, but also might get you pressured into being a walking band-aid for the "star" fighters that did all the 733+ damage by being completely reckless and nearly dying themselves in the fight. Which will just stick you in a crushing cycle of not being able to disprove the DM.

Wizard is by far the weakest of the 4 early on. Worst HD, BAB, no armor, and not even the sorc's weapons. And unless a specialist (which, IMHO, is a "trap" in core only. Just not worth the cost) you won't really have enough spells for any adventuring day.

So, I'll work with sorcerer. Lacking bonus feats, being human is actually somewhat useful.

Level 1, umm...don't know how you're doing stats. But Charisma needs to be high. At least a 15, 16-18 if possible. But you need at least a 15. Con and dex are the next most important, in that order. Then...whatever. I'd place the important of the rest as Int-Str-Wis.

Spells: For cantrips, you want detect magic, daze, prestidigitation, and...either an attack spell (acid splash or ray of frost) or mage hand. Detect Magic is just always useful. Daze will be traded out at the first opportunity, but at early levels, it's nearly a will save or lose for humanoid enemies. It might be your main offense. Prestidigitation has hundreds of potential uses and a long duration, don't leave home without it. Mage hand is nice to kep your distance if you want. Grease isn't worth learning at level 1 since it's round/level duration, but once you do, grease + mage hand isn't half bad as a "ranged disarm" combo.
Level 1 spells: A lot of people like Sleep for level 1. I don't, and find it loses utility REALLY fast. You can only swap out so many spells as you level. Mage Armor is a solid choice, lasting an hour/lvl and giving you much needed AC. On the other hand, you can buy scrolls of it for 25 gp. Later on, a wand for 750. Color Spray is all sorts of awesome and never becomes completely useless later on. You have to get dangerously close (15 ft), but a failed will save WILL guarantee defeat for a foe or foes. Ray of Enfeeblement can severely limit a melee enemy's power and has no save. Sadly, there isn't much in the way of direct damage at level 1. Burning hands is just really weak and situational. Shocking Grasp is a decent pickup later on, since it rises in damage each level up, but at level 1 isn't worth getting close. Magic Missile is solid, reliable damage. But I find it kind of boring. Oh well. Nothing quite like readying to magic missile a fleeing enemy to make your DM see red when he wants an NPC to escape alive. :)

Weapons: Go for the best of the simple weapons options: Morningstar, Longspear, and/or Light Crossbow, depending on your needs. These 3 are simply, the best simple weapons. Xbow can be pricy at level 1, so maybe use a sling, which also isn't bad, and nearly free to use.

Feats: Tough to call. If you're going to focus on blasting and ray spells, Point Blank Shot is fine (And use human bonus feat to snag Precise Shot). It will also help with weapon attacks. If you want to build for the future, consider getting a metamagic feat now, even though it won't be much use yet. Extend Spell and Empower Spell being the most useful to sorcerers. For right now...Improved Initiative is always handy. Spell Focus is good if you want to use mostly one school of magic for offense. Spell Penetration shouldn't matter at level 1, but likewise helps down the road. Eschew Materials is surprisingly useful, not the least because it basically makes it possible to cast in a grapple. By the same token, I'd value Still Spell over Silent Spell, since you can get the latter as a metamagic rod, and it is the somatic components that typically hinder spellcasting (arcane spell failure for armor; grappling). If this IS staying at level 1 and never going higher, Toughness is worth taking, but only if this is the case.
 

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