Needless comparison of EWP, WF & Imp Crit

[delericho]

Yep.

Great minds think alike, eh? You and the designers, that is?

Nah, I'm more like Dr Evil. All my cunning plans have already been done. Still, as long as I get fricken laser beams, I'll be happy.

Actually, I'm not too bad at remembering the options in the core books, but I'm pretty poor on anything outside the core.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Alright, the Lions are playing the All Blacks so I'm off, but watch this space if you care about the 8th level fighter choosing the optimal choice between Improved critical or Greater weapon focus...

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

The situation:
What are the differences between Greater weapon focus & Improved critical feats? The examples use an 8th level fighter with a +2 longsword (50/20 magic item rule), 17 str, weapon focus/specialization & gauntlets of ogre str+2 (ab+15/+10 vs AC20).

Greater WF
11.6875 = 0.85{12.5[1.1]}
8.25 = 0.60{12.5[1.1]}
19.9375

Imp crit
12 = 0.80{12.5[1.2]}
8.25 = 0.55{12.5[1.2]}
20.25

As usual I'll do the +5 AC example too (AC25)

Greater WF
8.25 = 0.60{12.5[1.1]}
4.8125 = 0.35{12.5[1.1]}
13.0625

Imp crit
8.25 = 0.55{12.5[1.2]}
4.5 = 0.30{12.5[1.2]}
12.75

As usual, Gwf just like Wf gets better as the target AC climbs & this is more important with the weaker iterative attacks. Character builds not focussed around unleashing full attacks may seriously need to look closely at Imp crit (I'm thinking shot on the run, spring attack & rideby attack).

The next issue that springs to mind is that if the Fighter takes Imp crit at level 8 they will have to wait to level 10 to get the next fighter bonus feat, while the Gwf choice only has to wait until level 9.

Anything else I've missed?

 

[delericho]

The next issue that springs to mind is that if the Fighter takes Imp crit at level 8 they will have to wait to level 10 to get the next fighter bonus feat, while the Gwf choice only has to wait until level 9.

Eh? I don't think Greater Weapon Focus can only be bought with the Fighter bonus feats, only that it requires the character to have 8 levels of Fighter before selecting the feat.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Thanks, point noted.

 

[Nail]

The real problem with these analyses: We don't have a good handle on the average AC of opponents at each EL, and we don't know the "average" attack score of a warrior-type of each ECL.

The AC problem is the bigger problem of the 2. I've got averages of the AC by CR in the MM (did you get all the acronyms?), but that's hardly a firm number, given all of the other monster supplements, Dragon magazines, and the like.

 

[the Jester]

I've got averages of the AC by CR in the MM (did you get all the acronyms?), but that's hardly a firm number, given all of the other monster supplements, Dragon magazines, and the like.

Nonetheless, I at least am curious.

 

[Nail]

Nonetheless, I at least am curious.

Me too! ......so here it is. This is from the MM, and doesn't include most dragons, some animals, or some vermin, BTW. (At home I have the dragon data included...I'll try to remember it tomorrow.)

CR   AC
 5   18
 6   19
 7   17
 8   20
 9   22
10   21
11   24
12   23
13   28
14   28
15   32
16   33
17   26
18   33
19   NA
20   36

 

[Nail]

Re: My Table above

Some Notes:

• Again, this is only from the MM, and doesn't include most dragons.
• Not including dragons means the sample number for CRs higher than 13 are highly suspect.
• I find average ACs from things CR 4 and below "not useful". Lots of huminoid opponents have ACs all over the map in this range.
• In fact, this "average AC" doesn't include any classed monsters at all, and doesn't do anything nifty with their supposed equipment wealth.....I find that as a DM, I commonly have monster's ACs several points higher than in the book, just by giving them a bit o' equipment.
• IME, ACs from MMII, FF, MMIII, Dragon Mag., and Dungeon mag are higher than those in these averages (power creep!). For MMIII, for example, the difference is 3 AC points higher --> average MM AC vs average MMIII AC.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

As a rule of thumb the CR+12 works reasonably well, there doesn't seem to be much alternative. That CR:AC table could be charted & the spikes flattened to give us a better set of numbers but we'd need to include classed npc ACs too.