D&D (2024) New Classes for 5e. Is anything missing?

[bedir than]

And yet all the arcane swordmage type subclasses don't get them. You can't even get them through feats as magic initiate doesn't cover paladin and ranger.

Okay?

The solve is pretty simple -- give your Bladesinging and Eldritch Knights to those 11 spells.

 

[Parmandur]

I think the swordmage/gish has a pretty strong identity, actually. It’s more like the fighter than like the paladin, in that each archetype is an archetype, whereas paladin is the archetype and the subclasses are variations of that archetype.

What I mean is, the identity is “warrior whose traditions are both martial and arcane”, with the single most important aspect being that the character doesn’t feel like a multiclass.

EK isn’t a good gish because it very strongly feels like a fighter who learned some spells in an exchange program. An actual gish should feel like a graduate from a school where you learn spells with sword in hand, and the sparring ring hums with magic, because the two elements are not separate in any way.

Absolutely, 100% earned question: what are the narrative examples for this archetype from fiction?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The solve is pretty simple -- give your Bladesinging and Eldritch Knights to those 11 spells.

Hey if BS had smite spells I might agree with some others that they can make decent AC-based tanks.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Absolutely, 100% earned question: what are the narrative examples for this archetype from fiction?

Does the Witcher count? Maybe the Heralds/Knights Radiant from the Stormlight Archive? Spellswords from the Elder Scrolls? The Forgemasters from Castlevania? Zuko from Avatar the Last Airbender? Danny Phantom when he uses a sword? Mystic Knights from Final Fantasy V? Gandalf could possibly count, as he uses a Sword and Staff. Eragon from the Inheritance Cycle?

There's quite a few examples from pop culture similar to this concept, and some in D&D's history (Duskblades and Swordmages).

And if there aren't any that perfectly match up . . . D&D can create its own stuff, can't it? It's been doing this for nearly 50 years already.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Absolutely, 100% earned question: what are the narrative examples for this archetype from fiction?

I’ve never seen an example of a cleric in fiction that wasn’t a terrible fit for the class in any edition. Nor most of the classes.

But I also don’t care, nor do I view the “justify wanting a thing” mentality as at all valid.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Does the Witcher count? Maybe the Heralds/Knights Radiant from the Stormlight Archive? Spellswords from the Elder Scrolls? The Forgemasters from Castlevania? Zuko from Avatar the Last Airbender? Danny Phantom when he uses a sword? Mystic Knights from Final Fantasy V? Gandalf could possibly count, as he uses a Sword and Staff. Eragon from the Inheritance Cycle?

There's quite a few examples from pop culture similar to this concept, and some in D&D's history (Duskblades and Swordmages).

And if there aren't any that perfectly match up . . . D&D can create its own stuff, can't it? It's been doing this for nearly 50 years already.

Exactly.

In addition, identity and direct precedent aren’t the same thing, so the question wasn’t even strongly relevant to what it replied to.

 

[Irlo]

I’ve never seen an example of a cleric in fiction that wasn’t a terrible fit for the class in any edition. Nor most of the classes.

But I also don’t care, nor do I view the “justify wanting a thing” mentality as at all valid.

Still, it's useful to know the narratative examples of the archetype (from whatever the source) to use as a basis to build a class or sub-class.

 

[Minigiant]

Absolutely, 100% earned question: what are the narrative examples for this archetype from fiction?

There are several.

• Tzeentch Warriors of 40k and WHFB
• Elven Might Knights of many series
• Dragon Age Arcane Warriors
• The hero in most of Dragon Quest
• Heraldic Knights in Star Ocean
• Way too many in Anime and Manga
• Witchers
• ES spellswords

Typically they are the Dept of Badassery of the Military in a high magic setting.

 

[bedir than]

Hey if BS had smite spells I might agree with some others that they can make decent AC-based tanks.

Adding 11 spells seems simpler than making a new class

 

[Minigiant]

Adding 11 spells seems simpler than making a new class

Simpler =/= Better

It's better to make a new swordmage class. It's just not braindead easy.