D&D (2024) New Classes for 5e. Is anything missing?

[Micah Sweet]

Exactly this.

Looks like the psionics problem all over again. We need to accept that no ideas are going to be universally popular, or nothing is going to get done. This is why I just look for 3rd party content I like, or homebrew my own.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Normal conversations for online discussions have antecedents. You came out swinging by claiming that I offered something that I didn’t and then went dosey-do by then accusing me of not offering anything. Both times you appear to be under the presumption that I was obligated to offer something without any indication from my side about this. I have engaged with others who clearly asked. As I said, if you could keep your goal posts still without dancing around claims that I have or haven’t offered something, maybe we could get anywhere. Until then? There’s a snowball’s chance in the sun.

I explained to you what I interpreted that you offered, and what by that I can conclude you didn't If you feel I misunderstood or misinterpreted you in some way, you're perfectly free to clarify. Now that is as much I will say about the meta discussion about discussing; I know you like to derail things into that, but I've no interest in it, nor, I suspect, most of the other posters. So if you want to engage with the the actual matter, do so, if you find the way I express myself intolerable, then don't.

 

[Remathilis]

'Fights with magic and weapons' is definitely not enough of a baseline for a new class. Paladin does that, and ranger, and hexblade, and battlesmith. There are plenty of classes and subclasses which fit that description.

Trouble is every lore option proposed is seemingly disliked.

This is pretty much the problem with any class based system: there are only so many ways to define "fights with weapons and/or magic". I mean, on a meta-level, an EK, paladin, bladesinger, war bard, hexblade and battlesmith all are variants of "fights with weapons and magic" but I don't think anyone would say they play similar or are replaceable with one another.

Personally, I have no problems with multiple classes doing the name niche as long as they're either have a mechanical or narrative hook. I think it game stagnates when people get too hung up on niche protection. It's not a bad thing when a few different people can do the same role as long as a class doesn't invalidate the need for that role (the classic 'wizards can do everything a rogue can more reliability with a few wands' issue).

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Personally, I have no problems with multiple classes doing the name niche as long as they're either have a mechanical or narrative hook.

I think they should at least have both.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I don't agree. And I think that you reject paladin as a gish proves it. It is not generic enough to satisfy your gish desires, even though it can fight, cast spells even combine those. It comes with it's own implied fluff and mechnics tied to those. So what I am asking that the gish has that level of definition too. But some people don't want it. All they can say what they don't want, which seems to be any flavour or metaphysics.

Because if you change the paladin enough to cover the space, you're making a new class.

And the flavor has been spelled out: they use a special school of magic that works through weapons but is otherwise wizard-like. That's already more specific than wizards get, or bards, or druids, or warlocks...

Well, it definitely isn't "perfectly satisfy personal expectations every individual on the planet" because that's not going to happen.

But "satisfies at least one person" is just as unreasonable a standard.

 

[CreamCloud0]

The thematic niche I think I would personally put a Swordmage into would be a that of an arcane themed paladin: An order of elite warriors with a special battle style combining swordplay and magical learning that's been passed down and cultivated through the generations but without the oaths or religious aspects, maybe a splash of rangers/the Witcher with them going around hunting down some of the nastier monsters or aberrations like the way paladins hunt fiends/devils/demons.

 

[The Hierophant]

I agree. We should give ALL the cool magic stuff to wizards. ALL of it. No non-wizard magical class should have anything unique or cool in its own right. Give everything magical to those spoiled wizarding brats! In fact, wizards should just be gods.

Correct, get rid of the Sorcerer and the Warlock.

(If you must have them make the Sorcerer a Wizard sub-class and the Warlock a Cleric sub-class.)

 

[Minigiant]

The three ideas of an arcane gish flavour which I've seen and like are:

• Warrior built to kill things normal humans can't. Something like a witcher.
• Elite 'magic guards' of important individuals and items. The type of person who would be used by an order of wizards to guard all their precious stuff. A bit like the jedi temple guard. Obviously a bit restrictive as if you're sitting guarding something, you're not adventuring.
• Alternatively elite warriors which are often sent out to retrieve items of power and knowledge for safekeeping by said order of wizards.

What I'd dislike as the entire class lore is 'person who magics and combats'. That isn't a class lore or theme, that's just a description of how they fight.

Typically in manga, cartoons, and video games.. the arcane warriors were monster killers.

Not monster hunters like rangers.

Arcane warriors slew known threats. They either were defensive bodyguards that let enemies come to them. Or they were offensive vanguards attacking a huge known threat or group of threats. Diplomacy and Espionage went to other people.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I should note: I absolutely don't think WotC will ever release a proper Swordmage class for 5e. They should, but that might "invalidate" existing options, so they won't.

But the game would be better if there was one, because trying to do it through subclasses just ain't working.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I am usually highly sceptical about adding new classes, but I was actually starting to think here that a bespoke gish class might be worth adding and it could be made to be interesting. Gish fans however quickly convinced me otherwise...