D&D 5E New D&D WotC survey! On classes.

[Yaarel]

This conversation seems to validate the idea that players are better at spotting when things are wrong or off-putting about design (i.e., the Necromancer) than they are with actually fixing the design problem.

It is hard for a group of people to agree about something.

It is easy for a group of people to disagree about something.

 

[Yaarel]

it is more I have never heard of necromancer as a half caster as what would the other half be?

The other half of a halfcaster Necromancer would be magical class features that specialized in creating, controling, and becoming undead.

depends on the thematics as some are so hyper specialised that the whole game would have to be rebuilt to make the useable like a pyromancer other or so broad to be just magic which is so general it is a class, not a subclass.

D&D might need a "simple"- design mage, the magical equivalent of a Fighter Champion. The simple mage would only have a few spells that scaled while leveling. It would effectively have a superhero feel with only a handful of specific superpowers.

But the Necromancer is a more complex concept.

I think artificer I think clockwork devices like even early on davinci gliders and robotics and even later things like mechanical birds and such inspired by the Elric Saga.

For me the quintessential Artificer is the magic item creator, especially the archetype of the Norse dvergar. Because the dvergar personified curses, their magic items could overcome obstacles in a way that those of others couldnt.

Still the Artificer concept deserves a class with subclasses because there are different types of items and constructs and technologies.

And all the high level necromancy spells? What if wizards had no spells but gained fireball as class ability? This game has an existing system for these sort of things, it is pointless to invent a parallel system that does the same thing.

At least the necromantic archetypes that I am familiar with, they are less versatile than other mages. Indeed, they normally get one of the undead spirit to do any magical effects for them, instead of a tually knowing how to do the magic themselves. The necromancer is all about contacting and interacting with the undead.

Undead spirits (plural) could together be a Warlock patronage. But a fullcaster who knows many kinds of magic is more like someone who dabbles in necromancy rather than a specialist.

An Artificer who views undeath as a technology (similar to how a lich does) would traffic with both undead bodies and undead minds. The half casting of the Artificer makes sense for a specialist, and leaves design space to gain necromantic effects sooner, like an animated undead as the construct at level 1.

I would need to look at the Artificer features carefully to determine what is serviceable and what to swap out for a Necromancer. Conceptually, The Arificer is about right.

 

[Weiley31]

I honestly wouldn't mind if the Eldritch Knight Subclass was allowed to switch out their two school of magics, Abjuration and Evocation, to two other schools of magic of their choice.

 

[CleverNickName]

I honestly wouldn't mind if the Eldritch Knight Subclass was allowed to switch out their two school of magics, Abjuration and Evocation, to two other schools of magic of their choice.

Sounds like a great house-rule.

I've house-ruled the EK several times over the years. Once to remove the school restrictions entirely, and let the EK choose any spells the player wants. Another time, I houseruled it to allow its spells to be chosen from the Bard class list (for a "songblade" flavored fighter), and most recently I've house-ruled it to let the player use spells on the Warlock class list. It works fine.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Sounds like a great house-rule.

I've house-ruled the EK several times over the years. Once to remove the school restrictions entirely, and let the EK choose any spells the player watns. Another time, I houseruled it to allow its spells to be chosen from the Bard class list (for a "songblade" flavored fighter), and most recently I've house-ruled it to let the player use spells on the Warlock class list. It works fine.

Agreed. I feature that let's the player decides the spell lists (linked with the casting stat) is pretty awesome!
with some changes, it would make a perfect ''Fighter + X'' spellcaster subclass.

• Give them the same Extra attack as the Bladesinger.
• Allow Weapon Bond to be used as Focus.
• Change Arcane Charge to something more generic; maybe cast another non-cantrip spells with Action Surge, or regain X slots when you second wind.
• Improved War Magic could be replacing one extra attack for a leveled spell.

 

[Yaarel]

Re the concept of "vampiric healing". It is undeath. It should never be actual healing. It is a pale imitation of life. Its mechanics should differ from healing. Vampiric healing is undead and nonliving. It is about animating a dead body, not restoring a living body.

Re the flavor.

The positive energy is a mystic source of conciousness, life, and success.

The (Deep) Shadowfell is low energy ether. Ghosts rest. A ghost would need to gain energy to enter the neutral (Shallow) ether to manifest lifelike in the material plane.

The (Deep) Feywild is also ether, but high energy, more than the material plane can normally contain.

Undead exist naturally, as aspects of a person resting in the Shadowfell. A restless undead is rare but famous. Often it is said, there is unfinshed business in the Material. Somehow this connection to the Material is literally energizing the ghost, that would normally be resting. In other words, they are utilizing positive energy, without processing it normally the way material living creatures do. Typically, the restless undead are minds, manifesting a virtual body ethereally as a ghost. A powerful mind can "haunt" the material persons or places that remain unfinished, influencing mentally or poltergeisting physically. The restless mind maintains a link to the corpse. Sometimes an exceptionally powerful can even animate ones dead body, whence the concept of a sentient undead. A vampire is such an example of a sapient corpse.

When a vampire sucks life energy from a living creature, there is no healing. The body is dead. There is nothing to heal, or that could heal. There is no cellular metabolism. But like a golem, the corpse moves around anyway.

Instead of the body gaining the positive energy to become whole, the vampire is energizing ethereally. Higher frequency ethereal energy means the vampire can avoid resting. The undead mind stays alert and manifest.

Thus vampiric energy gain is an addiction. The vampire depends on it to maintain material existence. Without it, the undead mind would rest, and the corpse collapse - as corpses normally do.

Vampiric "healing" is no healing. It is a pale imitation of life. It is a mental manifestation of a faint memory of what life was once like. Vampiric energizing is more like a quasi-real illusion of life.

Actually, the body of a vampire has zero hit points, being quite dead already. This material avatar of a vampiric ghost is made out of temporary hit points. To maintain these temporary hit points, the vampire must continually feed on the living, or else suffer one level of exhaustion each night if without feeding. When the temporary body dies of exhaustion or the temporary hit points run out, the body collapses. Then the vampire reverts to a ghost and loses the exceptional influence over the material plane. Nevertheless this ghost might still have unfinished business to attend to, is a powerful mind, and might reanimate ones corpse at some future time to manifest as a vampire once again.

While restless undead are freak occurances, they are natural in the sense that the multiverse functions this way. A necromancer is someone who researches and manipulates the magical processes that are in play during a restless undead manifestation event.

 

[Yaarel]

I want a way bigger overhaul of the monk, I would like to fix the name but none really work that are not multiple words.

A generic name for a Monk is "Athlete", focusing on the prowress of the body. The classic D&D Monk becomes a subclass of Athlete, and most of its features relocate to the subclass, leaving the base class Athlete with more design space for other concepts.

The Athlete can handle nonmagical subclasses (like brawler) and magical subclasses (like Avatar The Last Airbender). As well as various kinds of low armor skirmishers, mixed martial artists, fightsportists, and unarmed combatants. Even the magical and nonmagical Ranger could be Athlete subclasses.

The normal D&D Rogue makes a surprisingly historically accurate ninja. Perhaps an Athlete subclass can handle a mythologically accurate magical ninja whence Shadow Monk.

 

[Garthanos]

A generic name for a Monk is "Athlete", focusing on the prowress of the body. The classic D&D Monk becomes a subclass of Athlete, and most of its features relocate to the subclass, leaving the base class Athlete with more design space for other concepts.

The Athlete can handle nonmagical subclasses (like brawler) and magical subclasses (like Avatar The Last Airbender). As well as various kinds of low armor skirmishers, mixed martial artists, fightsportists, and unarmed combatants. Even the magical and nonmagical Ranger could be Athlete subclasses.

The normal D&D Rogue makes a surprisingly historically accurate ninja. Perhaps an Athlete subclass can handle a mythologically accurate magical ninja whence Shadow Monk.

Advanced 5e:Level Up went with Adept.

 

[Garthanos]

For me the quintessential Artificer is the magic item creator, especially the archetype of the Norse dvergar. Because the dvergar personified curses, their magic items could overcome obstacles in a way that those of others couldnt.

Hmmm Enchanter, Rune Smith, Clockwork Engineer

 

[Scars Unseen]

An Artificer who views undeath as a technology (similar to how a lich does) would traffic with both undead bodies and undead minds. The half casting of the Artificer makes sense for a specialist, and leaves design space to gain necromantic effects sooner, like an animated undead as the construct at level 1.

Yeah, I'm on board with this kind of view of the necromancer. I would say that I'd like to make such a necromancer get, for lack of a better word, weirder at higher levels rather than just have the base concept scale. Like a low level necromancer might be doing the standard grave digging, zombie raising type stuff, but a high level necromancer should be working more with souls than flesh, transplanting dead souls into new bodies (living or dead), creating gestalt beings from the scraps of multiple souls and at the highest levels even creating entirely new souls with varying results depending on what raw material they use to craft them. A high level necromancer should look nothing like a high level wizard, ability-wise.