D&D 5E New D&D WotC survey! On classes.

[Crimson Longinus]

Sounds like a great house-rule.

I've house-ruled the EK several times over the years. Once to remove the school restrictions entirely, and let the EK choose any spells the player watns. Another time, I houseruled it to allow its spells to be chosen from the Bard class list (for a "songblade" flavored fighter), and most recently I've house-ruled it to let the player use spells on the Warlock class list. It works fine.

I think spell schools are generally a bad way to arrange things as they seem to be pretty arbitrary. I think both Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster should have their own bespoke spell lists. Though I understand why they didn't no it, it would use a lot of space.

 

[Aldarc]

I think spell schools are generally a bad way to arrange things as they seem to be pretty arbitrary. I think both Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster should have their own bespoke spell lists. Though I understand why they didn't no it, it would use a lot of space.

One possibility would be to use spell tags/descriptors like Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved. AE had a universal spell list across the board for all classes, but spells were put into not only spell levels but also tiers of complexity: i.e., Simple, Complex, and Exotic. Exotic spells generally required a feat to obtain, though they could also be discovered through play. Additionally, spells often had descriptors or tags like Fire, Dragon, Healing, Plant, Electric, etc.

The wizard-like Magister, for example, got access to all Simple and Complex spells up to 9th level. The shamanistic healer Greenbond got all Simple Spells up to 9th level and all Complex spells with the Healing and Plant descriptors up to 9th level as well. Meanwhile, the gish Mageblade only got all Simple spells up to 6th level.

So imagine, if you will, the Sorcerer. Instead of printing a Sorcerer spell list, simply saying that the Sorcerer gets all Simple spells up to 9th level, and then their Draconic Subclass gives them spells with the Dragon descriptor and their Dragon subtype may additionally give them spells with the Fire descriptor.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

One possibility would be to use spell tags/descriptors like Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved. AE had a universal spell list across the board for all classes, but spells were put into not only spell levels but also tiers of complexity: i.e., Simple, Complex, and Exotic. Exotic spells generally required a feat to obtain, though they could also be discovered through play. Additionally, spells often had descriptors or tags like Fire, Dragon, Healing, Plant, Electric, etc.

The wizard-like Magister, for example, got access to all Simple and Complex spells up to 9th level. The shamanistic healer Greenbond got all Simple Spells up to 9th level and all Complex spells with the Healing and Plant descriptors up to 9th level as well. Meanwhile, the gish Mageblade only got all Simple spells up to 6th level.

So imagine, if you will, the Sorcerer. Instead of printing a Sorcerer spell list, simply saying that the Sorcerer gets all Simple spells up to 9th level, and then their Draconic Subclass gives them spells with the Dragon descriptor and their Dragon sutype may additionally give them spells with the Fire descriptor.

This sounds so much more useful way to classify the spells than the current system!

 

[Aldarc]

This sounds so much more useful way to classify the spells than the current system!

The magic system for AE was pretty neat.

Some spells also had Diminished and Heightened effects too. For example, you could cast some spells one spell slot lower and get a lesser effect (i.e., Diminished) or alternatively cast some spells one spell slot higher and get a greater effect (i.e., Heightened).

There was also Spell-Weaving where you could sacrifice three spell slots of one spell level to cast a higher level spell or sacrifice one spell slot for two spell slots of a lower level. (Keeping in mind that this was in the 3e era where there were more spell slots per level as a result of bonus spells.)

And there were also Spell Templates, which often provided thematic enhancers to certain types of spells when cast. For example, the Draconic Spell Template provided the caster an additional +1 Natural Armor buff for any spell that enhanced AC or +2 if the spell has the Draconic descriptor.

A lot of the above definitely increases the complexity of the game. I'm not advocating for these things either, but simply describing some additional highlights about what made the magic in AE stand out from standard 3e D&D.

I do like universal spell lists as per AE, as I think that it also makes it far easier when new spells are added to the game. Every time a new spell is added to the game, you don't necessarily have to waste layout space listing who gets what spell. You simply know, "Oh, this is a Complex spell with the Plant descriptor, so my Greenbond now gets that spell on their list."

 

[Eubani]

The magic system for AE was pretty neat.

Some spells also had Diminished and Heightened effects too. For example, you could cast some spells one spell slot lower and get a lesser effect (i.e., Diminished) or alternatively cast some spells one spell slot higher and get a greater effect (i.e., Heightened).

There was also Spell-Weaving where you could sacrifice three spell slots of one spell level to cast a higher level spell or sacrifice one spell slot for two spell slots of a lower level. (Keeping in mind that this was in the 3e era where there were more spell slots per level as a result of bonus spells.)

And there were also Spell Templates, which often provided thematic enhancers to certain types of spells when cast. For example, the Draconic Spell Template provided the caster an additional +1 Natural Armor buff for any spell that enhanced AC or +2 if the spell has the Draconic descriptor.

A lot of the above definitely increases the complexity of the game. I'm not advocating for these things either, but simply describing some additional highlights about what made the magic in AE stand out from standard 3e D&D.

I do like universal spell lists as per AE, as I think that it also makes it far easier when new spells are added to the game. Every time a new spell is added to the game, you don't necessarily have to waste layout space listing who gets what spell. You simply know, "Oh, this is a Complex spell with the Plant descriptor, so my Greenbond now gets that spell on their list."

This is the last thing that martial characters need in the game.

 

[Aldarc]

This is the last thing that martial characters need in the game.

It is one reason why I said that I am not advocating for it. It was a fairly significant boon for spellcasters. But again, AE was also in the 3Era. I don't necessarily want to return to it, though this is not to say that it's not entirely without merits (e.g., universal spell system, spell descriptors, etc.).

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

A generic name for a Monk is "Athlete", focusing on the prowress of the body. The classic D&D Monk becomes a subclass of Athlete, and most of its features relocate to the subclass, leaving the base class Athlete with more design space for other concepts.

The Athlete can handle nonmagical subclasses (like brawler) and magical subclasses (like Avatar The Last Airbender). As well as various kinds of low armor skirmishers, mixed martial artists, fightsportists, and unarmed combatants. Even the magical and nonmagical Ranger could be Athlete subclasses.

The normal D&D Rogue makes a surprisingly historically accurate ninja. Perhaps an Athlete subclass can handle a mythologically accurate magical ninja whence Shadow Monk.

I once suggested Challenger for the name of the Level Up ''monk''. The idea, like yours is of a top athlete, pushing the mysticism of the class a little on the side. The Challenger is the one who master self-discipline and challenges their limits and the limits of reality hard enough as to be able to attain supernatural kinda-psionic states.

 

[Mind of tempest]

A generic name for a Monk is "Athlete", focusing on the prowress of the body. The classic D&D Monk becomes a subclass of Athlete, and most of its features relocate to the subclass, leaving the base class Athlete with more design space for other concepts.

The Athlete can handle nonmagical subclasses (like brawler) and magical subclasses (like Avatar The Last Airbender). As well as various kinds of low armor skirmishers, mixed martial artists, fightsportists, and unarmed combatants. Even the magical and nonmagical Ranger could be Athlete subclasses.

The normal D&D Rogue makes a surprisingly historically accurate ninja. Perhaps an Athlete subclass can handle a mythologically accurate magical ninja whence Shadow Monk.

I once suggested Challenger for the name of the Level Up ''monk''. The idea, like yours is of a top athlete, pushing the mysticism of the class a little on the side. The Challenger is the one who master self-discipline and challenges their limits and the limits of reality hard enough as to be able to attain supernatural kinda-psionic states.

I do not think you get why people play the monk these days, if you just want a pugilist make it a fighter, the mystical stuff none of us quite get is honestly half the point of the class
as trying to make every class super broad can backfire as then you end up with the bland flavourless fighter.
the top athlete is not why people play monk, if they wanted that they would play fighter or barbarian.

I do want to make monk better but you have to know why people care and what makes it work as a class.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I think spell schools are generally a bad way to arrange things as they seem to be pretty arbitrary. I think both Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster should have their own bespoke spell lists. Though I understand why they didn't no it, it would use a lot of space.

Not much really. We are talking of a spell list of up to 4th level spells for 2 archetypes. I think it would be shorter that the BM maneuvers list or the 4E Monk Disciplines.

ie.

Eldritch Knight

Cantrip:
acid splash
blade ward
chill touch
dancing lights
firebolt
mending
message
ray of frost
resistance
shocking grasp
thorn whip
true strike

1st level:
armor of agathys
burning hands
chromatic orb
compelled duel
ensnaring strike
expeditious retreat
false life
feather fall
guiding bolt
hail of thorns
hellish rebuke
heroism
jump
longstrider
mage armor
magic missile
protection from evil
searing smite
shield
thunderous smite
thunderwave
wrathful smite

2nd level:
aid
alter self
blindness/deafness
blur
branding smite
cloud of daggers
enhance ability
enlarge/reduce
flame blade
gust of wind
heat metal
levitate
magic weapon
Melf's acid arrow
mirror image
misty step
scorching ray
shatter
spiritual weapon
warding bond

3rd level:
beacon of hope
blinding smite
blink
conjure barrage
crusader's mantle
elemental weapon
fear
fireball
fly
haste
lightning arrow
lightning bolt
sending
slow
wind wall

4th level:
deathward
dimension door
fabricate
fire shield
freedom of movement
grasping vine
ice storm
staggering smite
resilient sphere
stoneskin
fire wall

Arcane trickster

Cantrip:
acid splash
chill touch
fire bolt
friends
guidance
light
mage hand
message
minor illusion
true strike
vicious mockery

1st level:
alarm
bane
charm person
chromatic orb
color spray
comprehend language
detect magic
disguise self
dissonant whispers
expeditious retreat
faerie fire
feather fall
fog cloud
guiding bolt
illusory script
jump
silent image
sleep

2nd level:
arcane lock
blindness/deafness
blur
cordon of arrows
darkness
darkvision
detect thoughts
enthrall
invisibility
knock
levitate
mirror image
misty step
rope trick
see invisibility
silence
spider climb
suggestion
web

3rd level:
blink
counterspell
clairvoyance
dispel magic
fear
feign death
fly
gaseous form
glyph of warding
haste
hypnotic pattern
non detection
meld into stone
sending
slow
tongues

4th level:
arcane eye
banishment
compulsion
dimension door
divination
fabricate
freedom of movement
hallucinary terrain
secret chest
locate creature
faithful hound
phantasmal killer


so maybe 1 page all in all?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Someone who is not a full caster is not a proper magician in D&D, they're a dabbler, even though their spells might be impressive compared to Gandalf.

I fundamentally disagree with this position and I don't think it makes sense. I think it's a design flaw that D&D sometimes makes things look this way and I don't think it's entirely intended.

Your half-caster necromancer would literally be unable to learn create undead, which is a sixth level spell!

Yes, which is terrible design on D&D's part lol. The whole current design of necromantic spells is a car crash.

it is easy to see flaws fixing them is difficult.

My experience at work is that actually both are pretty difficult for a lot of people (I'm ridiculously better at finding and anticipating problems than co-workers, for example). But I suspect RPG players are unusually good at finding problems with systems/rules.