D&D 5E New D&D WotC survey! On classes.

[Tales and Chronicles]

I do not think you get why people play the monk these days, if you just want a pugilist make it a fighter, the mystical stuff none of us quite get is honestly half the point of the class

I seem to recall having wrote: ''challenges the limit of reality to reach supernatural state'' ?

The mystical element of the class (tongue sun and moon, astral projection etc) are a little non-pertinent for a class that, like it or not, the ''super-hero'' class. I'd keep the mysticism quite present in the class, just make it more in line with the thematic of the class, which is supernatural control over one's body, not '' 70's orientalist tropes mashed all in one''.

As an example, I think I'd prefer the Open Hand features to be part of the main class chassis instead of just one archetype.

( I mean, a Kensei using quivering palm blade as a finisher on a enemy, who still walks 5 steps before falling to the ground, cut in two a round later, is pretty spot on the theme).

 

[Faolyn]

I do not think you get why people play the monk these days, if you just want a pugilist make it a fighter, the mystical stuff none of us quite get is honestly half the point of the class
as trying to make every class super broad can backfire as then you end up with the bland flavourless fighter.
the top athlete is not why people play monk, if they wanted that they would play fighter or barbarian.

I do want to make monk better but you have to know why people care and what makes it work as a class.

Probably the most important parts of the monk are the quick, multiple attacks, the faster movement, and being unarmored. There are multiple ideas that fit this. A pugilist is one of them, but they would make for a terrible fighter because fighters rely on fewer attacks, standard movement, and wearing at least some armor.

You can make a generic Athlete (or Adept, as in Level Up) and put the mysticism into the monk archetype(s) and leave it out of the less magical ones.

 

[CleverNickName]

I think "Athlete" is too broad of a category...there are tons of athletic competitions and events, but only a very few of them involve hitting an opponent bare-handed. Maybe "Martial Artist" would be more accurate?

 

[Mind of tempest]

I seem to recall having wrote: ''challenges the limit of reality to reach supernatural state'' ?

The mystical element of the class (tongue sun and moon, astral projection etc) are a little non-pertinent for a class that, like it or not, the ''super-hero'' class. I'd keep the mysticism quite present in the class, just make it more in line with the thematic of the class, which is supernatural control over one's body, not '' 70's orientalist tropes mashed all in one''.

As an example, I think I'd prefer the Open Hand features to be part of the main class chassis instead of just one archetype.

( I mean, a Kensei using quivering palm blade as a finisher on a enemy, who still walks 5 steps before falling to the ground, cut in two a round later, is pretty spot on the theme).

the open hand is part of what you wish to remove as that literally just mean karate, I want to split the subclasses from the martial arts so it has a chance to try for interesting ideas.
so you get to pick your martial arts and then pick your subclass later if that makes sense.

Probably the most important parts of the monk are the quick, multiple attacks, the faster movement, and being unarmored. There are multiple ideas that fit this. A pugilist is one of them, but they would make for a terrible fighter because fighters rely on fewer attacks, standard movement, and wearing at least some armor.

You can make a generic Athlete (or Adept, as in Level Up) and put the mysticism into the monk archetype(s) and leave it out of the less magical ones.

no pugilist flat out does not work as an idea in the world of dnd as ti is merely how someone fights not a class idea, it has no business being a subclass of anything, monk without mysticism at all is just an unarmed fight you might as well merge it in with the fighter and the barbarian.

 

[Faolyn]

no pugilist flat out does not work as an idea in the world of dnd as ti is merely how someone fights not a class idea, it has no business being a subclass of anything, monk without mysticism at all is just an unarmed fight you might as well merge it in with the fighter and the barbarian.

I strongly disagree, if only because things like kensei, swashbuckler, cavalier, and arcane archer are already archetypes, and those are basically as much "how someone fights" as a pugilist is.

I can easily imagine a whole range of pugilist ideas (and I assume someone who actually knows something about fistfights or boxing can thing of a lot more). You have (easier) ability to knock someone out cold or prone with a punch. You can render someone briefly blind, deaf, or stunned by punching them in the head. You could even through in some throws and holds if you want to expand the idea into wrestling/judo. You can make the class semi-magical by potentially allowing them to create flaming fists, or inflict force or psychic damage with a punch instead of just bludgeoning. And you could give this class some showmanship abilities, if you feel like (in much the same way that the gladiator background is an altered entertainer).

 

[Mind of tempest]

I strongly disagree, if only because things like kensei, swashbuckler, cavalier, and arcane archer are already archetypes, and those are basically as much "how someone fights" as a pugilist is.

I can easily imagine a whole range of pugilist ideas (and I assume someone who actually knows something about fistfights or boxing can thing of a lot more). You have (easier) ability to knock someone out cold or prone with a punch. You can render someone briefly blind, deaf, or stunned by punching them in the head. You could even through in some throws and holds if you want to expand the idea into wrestling/judo. You can make the class semi-magical by potentially allowing them to create flaming fists, or inflict force or psychic damage with a punch instead of just bludgeoning. And you could give this class some showmanship abilities, if you feel like (in much the same way that the gladiator background is an altered entertainer).

and I think they are badly built subclasses certainly the Kensei as it tends to lose out to all the flash of the other options.

I want to split the martial arts from the subclasses for this very reason so that they can then also be added to other things by say a feat thus removing the problems in one nice swoop.

 

[Tinker-TDC]

and I think they are badly built subclasses certainly the Kensei as it tends to lose out to all the flash of the other options.

I want to split the martial arts from the subclasses for this very reason so that they can then also be added to other things by say a feat thus removing the problems in one nice swoop.

If they put both the monk's Martial Arts and Unarmored Defense into abilities a warrior class could choose and also made that class have a resource-based source for special moves I'd love it but I'm not sure the Monk would have anything left. Maybe a subclass of a psychic or something if you're focusing on the mystical elements.

Personally I'd like to relegate the mysticism to a few subclasses and rename it the Martial Artist. Though all the other classes are one word so it should probably be shorter somehow.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Personally I'd like to relegate the mysticism to a few subclasses and rename it the Martial Artist. Though all the other classes are one word so it should probably be shorter somehow.

I want to do the exact opposite. Make the mysticism more apparent. Monk is on D&D class that would actually want to be more magical than it currently is. Make them more blatantly supernatural and then let the subclasses focus on different forms of supernatural martial arts.

 

[CleverNickName]

I want to do the exact opposite. Make the mysticism more apparent. Monk is on D&D class that would actually want to be more magical than it currently is. Make them more blatantly supernatural and then let the subclasses focus on different forms of supernatural martial arts.

Same. I would lean more in this direction:

Earth monk. Fire monk. Airben--er, Air Monk.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Its a pretty big tangent, but I'd favor moving ''fight with fist'' from class niche to an archetype for each class:

ie:
Fighter: Pugilist
Rogue: Shadowdancer
Bard: Jester/Juggler/Acrobat/Dancer
Sorcerer: Giant Origin (become Large/Huge, grapple and throw stuff with giant fists. Gish subclass)
Druid: Circle of the Oak (Root yourself in the ground and punch stuff in the form of a giant tree)
Cleric: Domain of Strength
Barbarian: Juggernaut (run through walls, become invulnerable for a time etc)
Ranger: Beast Claw Adept (gain feature similar to the traits of creatures from the MM; pounce, blood frenzy etc)
Monk: Open Hand

IMHO, the unarmed damage progression of the monk class, which is one of its main feature, takes lot of place in the class, but isnt all that great. It may look pretty cool, but its barely able to keep up with other weapon-using class. Its high level defensive features are really the best part of the class, and (still IMHO) is the part that really screams ''monk''.

To me the monk is designed if all the rogue got was sneak attack progression and only gained Evasion/Uncanny dodge/Expertise at higher level.