New "Dead Levels"

[Thotas]

Honestly, is anyone willing to discuss this issue without making up what the other people are saying and then insulting them for it?

Oh, sure ... take away the underpinning of half of all Internet discourse, why doncha?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Could you explain to this thick-headed individual (me, in case there's any doubt) how going up a level is ever a penalty? Even if you are going up a so-called "dead level" you still increase hit points; you gain at least 2 skill points; and most likely either your base attack bonus or your saving throws improve. How is this a penalty? I really just don't understand.

Because all those also advance for the foes and challenges they face. They're not getting anything new, they're just maintaining the status quo.

Compared to accessing a new level of spells or gaining new abilities, that may not be a penalty, but it doesn't feel like an accomplishment, either.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

I do not have much for con so the amount of hit points going up will be about 2 with the dm's system, I will not get a point of base attack bonus, I will get a single extra slot of casting but my spell selection is small and all utility spells that the party already has plenty of, the skill points will be ok but I am already past synergy bonuses so the extra +1 will barelly be noticeable especially since most of the important checks I currently beat on a take 10 already anyway, and I will get one point on my reflex save.

Would you mind saying what class it is? I can't figure out what it is, so I'm thinking it's some house-ruled, non-standard, or obscure-splatbook class.
The only core classes that would have Reflex save advance on its own would be Rogue, Cleric, or Druid.
The only core classes that gain a *single* spell slot per level are very-low-level primary casters or any-level secondary casters.
The only core classes to get 2 hp/level (under the half-die-size optional rule) would be sorcerer and wizard.

 

[Slaved]

My dm does go around the boards so I do not want to say exactly what it is, I would not want him to think I am unhappy with the character or the game. He does not know my name on here. I mainly just wanted to say that it is possible to have reasons to not want to go up a level

No, it is not houseruled but not all of the classes the character has are core. I have two classes split right now.

That is more than I feel comfortable saying, just wanted to get the base message across.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Theres enough crap on the character sheets without remembering that you get a +1 to Gather Information checks about frogs while the moon is waxing.

I appreciate the effort to make it appealing to go to 20th level in one class, but if its so minor and unspectacular you'll forget ti 9 times out of 10, its just wasting space. However, with the bulk of a classes power already represented (in theory), the abilities cant be very powerful, so I understand the author's hands were tied.

Its something to consider for 4th edition. Maybe making classes 10 levels long instead?

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Because all those also advance for the foes and challenges they face.

This is true in a world where the monster abilities always just happen to line up with the level of the PCs. Such a world would really hurts suspension of disbelief for me. I'm a BIG fan of "status quo" worldbuilding. Level 9 characters should have the same random encounters in the woods around the City of Threshold that level 4 characters would have.

 

[WhatGravitas]

This is true in a world where the monster abilities always just happen to line up with the level of the PCs. Such a world would really hurts suspension of disbelief for me. I'm a BIG fan of "status quo" worldbuilding. Level 9 characters should have the same random encounters in the woods around the City of Threshold that level 4 characters would have.

Sure, but your experience will still go down.

 

[Slaved]

Sure, but your experience will still go down.

Exactly.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Sure, but your experience will still go down.

Of course. But a PC has little conception of that, and so it really isn't that important. From their point of view they're quite happy that they are now skilled enough to walk through the woods without fearing for their lives every time an ogre's ugly head pops up. They can also do a bunch of amazing things they couldn't do before, even with just incremental improvements to skills. The characters feels more accomplished because they have improved relative to the static challenges in the world. Therefore, as a player, I get in the PC's head, imagine how they feel about themselves, and roleplay that sense of accomplishment. The PC fighter is now the baddest thing in his little town, basically just from getting a few more HD and BAB, and he knows it.

Now, once the PC has to move on to the next big challenge, they'll realize there are things tougher than them... but that won't take away the previous accomplishments.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I guess that the "problem" is just perception. An earlier poster said there is no reason to take levels after 5th in any base class, why, because you don't get phenomenal cosmic power? That's powergaming in my book.

Or your character not being a moron. Say youve been working at a job for a while. Its been going along ok, but you can tell that you'er going to remain relatively stagnant. You see a job opening for a new job that sounds similar to what you'ved been doing, but with more opportunities for promotion, better pay, more vacation, etc. Why wouldnt you jump ship?

Company loyalty? I wasnt aware that sorcerer was a corporation. Even the dumbest sorcerers is bound to notice that the other sorcerers are heading on over to pick up Incanatrix for Dummies (or whatever good sorcerer PRC is out there), and able to do everything they can do, PLUS tons of other stuff.

What kind of idiot would stay in the slow lane? Characters are aware of the abilities they are training for. They might not call them feats skills or classes, but when the player picks weapon focus, the character DOES understand that he is training to use a specific weapon better. They understand that the Order of the Bow teaches you how to shoot a bow point blank with some guy punching you in the face, or that if you want to shoot laser beams out of your eyes at will, singing on with team Warlock is the way to go.

Characters dont just stumble ass backwards through their training. Classes (usually) arent lifestyles, just training packages. Picking a better prc, feat, or whatever isnt just a meta construct. Unless the character is just a lazy, unambitious slob, most likely he's trying to get the most out of his training, particularly since he's routinely in a position to be eaten, fireballed, or squashed by falling rocks.