new death save == leave your buddy on the floor for 3 rounds?

[Revinor]

If I would want to be nasty as a DM, I would concentrate all at least two or three foes to finish that guy so he wouldn't get a chance to enter the fight again...

From the monster point of view he is already finished - everything else is dead after dropping down. Monster would have to know he is fighting with somebody with PC template to understand that he should be coup-de-grace'd to get really dead.

I doubt monsters will have a lot of experience with PCs. Generally, information flow goes other direction. Some powerful NPCs on the other hand... they could have noticed that for very few people in the world laws of the reality work in different way. I have a image in my head where PC is put into some kind of hellish device and high-level NPC wizard is trying to extract those 'healing surges' from him. After all, ability to heal all damage overnight is a nice kind of superpower.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

There is one serious flaw in the logic of letting be for 3 rounds. The fact, that enemy can still attack the helpless character during those rounds. And what than?

And then, Coup de grâce. The guy is dead.

If I would want to be nasty as a DM, I would concentrate all at least two or three foes to finish that guy so he wouldn't get a chance to enter the fight again...

No statistics for that, I guess

That's not being nasty, that's being petty. A DM who likes to rack up as many PC kills as possible instead of challenging fights does that.

Even a cartoony version of a Nazi SS squad wouldn't waste time shooting bullets in the head of their dying victims until after they'd won the fight!

 

[Stalker0]

There is one serious flaw in the logic of letting be for 3 rounds. The fact, that enemy can still attack the helpless character during those rounds. And what than? If I would want to be nasty as a DM, I would concentrate all at least two or three foes to finish that guy so he wouldn't get a chance to enter the fight again...

Imo, most dms would be loathe to do that. When its the monsters vs the pcs, hey you roll the die and take your chances. When the dm attacks your unconscious character, he is telling the player point blank that he is trying to kill your character. Many players would take that very personally.

However, there are a couple of things a dm has at his disposal to keep kicking a player while he's down without.....kicking a player while he's down.

1) Ongoing damage. We've seen several monster examples with poison and fire that continuously do damage. An unconscious character could well die from those effects.

2) Area effects. Several attacks have close bursts radius and the like, that can hit an active character and still kill the unconscious one. Some players would still be sore at this, but I think most would agree its reasonable. And this ignores the "monster doesn't have knowledge of pcs" scenario. Whether the monster thinks the unconscious character is dead or not is irrelevant, he just lets the blast fly.

 

[Victim]

And then, Coup de grâce. The guy is dead.



That's not being nasty, that's being petty. A DM who likes to rack up as many PC kills as possible instead of challenging fights does that.

Even a cartoony version of a Nazi SS squad wouldn't waste time shooting bullets in the head of their dying victims until after they'd won the fight!

Not if there was magical healing that could restore the dying character to full effectiveness in a moment.

 

[Henry]

Not if there was magical healing that could restore the dying character to full effectiveness in a moment.

Though I usually don't go "gunning" for PCs, occasionally I'll have a particularly ruthless band of monsters do so, just to impress the fact of how ruthless they are. I've never had players act more shocked, or so hot to kill the monsters, as when the monsters have chopped on a downed PC. I'm careful enough to know when to do this, so my players know I'm not being a bastard; it's not a "multiple times per campaign" thing.

 

[psionotic]

It seems unlikely that any monster or enemy that actually wants to *win* the fight would waste their action by attacking someone who was already unconscious, when there were still standing and dangerous PCs about. They may however conveniently fit the fallen PC into their Area of Effect powers, or, perhaps, use their fallen body as a ransom object or bargaining device.

In any case, I like the idea of the new dying rules, am interested to see them in practice.

 

[komi]

It seems unlikely that any monster or enemy that actually wants to *win* the fight would waste their action by attacking someone who was already unconscious, when there were still standing and dangerous PCs about. They may however conveniently fit the fallen PC into their Area of Effect powers, or, perhaps, use their fallen body as a ransom object or bargaining device.

Would you attack a troll when it's down? Probably because you know that it gets back up. Well, if the enemy has the smarts or cunning to know how PCs work, then they know that we pop back up all the time.

So in terms of tactics, going for the down guy, or perhaps going for the cleric can be very valid (still assuming the bad guys can understand this kind of tactic). However, it certainly changes the tone of the game. So I see it more as DM-player etiquette. I'm not out to judge people's playing style, but the norm seems to be don't do it (or as someone else mentioned, don't do it often).

 

[Simonides]

For an answer to the question of whether monsters "know" that PCs might not be dead just because they fall and whether they would take the time to kill a downed opponent, consider the Bugbear Headreaver's power: Reaver's Prize:

Reaver's Prize (minor; recharge 6): When a melee attack reduces an enemy to 0hp, it loses 1d6+5 hp and this creature gains an extra standard action this turn.

This creature obviously takes the time to ravage a downed opponent (presumably to collect some sort of trophy) and maybe even attack again to finish it off.

 

[hong]

I'm pretty sure "kill the cleric first!" will take the place of "kill the wizard first!" in the 4E metagame.

 

[Slife]

For an answer to the question of whether monsters "know" that PCs might not be dead just because they fall and whether they would take the time to kill a downed opponent, consider the Bugbear Headreaver's power: Reaver's Prize:

Reaver's Prize (minor; recharge 6): When a melee attack reduces an enemy to 0hp, it loses 1d6+5 hp and this creature gains an extra standard action this turn.

This creature obviously takes the time to ravage a downed opponent (presumably to collect some sort of trophy) and maybe even attack again to finish it off.

"Obiviously?"

Seems more along the lines of "I, headreaver will knock you down."

Since reave means to tear asunder, I'd assume the ability means that the headreaver is really good at, you know, decapitating opponents.