New Design article: Elves

[freyar]

Well, like you said, we can't say anything for sure. But to me, I didn't get "subraces." I got "two races that happen to be related." Not quite the same thing. My impression (again, from what little we know) is that the eladrin are a lot closer to the "true fey" than the elves are.

I don't think they'll be called subraces, but it seems (at this point, given that we know only a little!) that they will effectively be subraces. Matter of semantics?

I don't think "retcon" is a bad word. If the eladrin--which always resembled elves--make more sense as an otherworldly fey than an otherworldly celestial, I'm all for it.

Depends if you like how it was to start. I haven't used eladrin myself and am only sort of familiar with them through recent Dungeon adventures (including STAP), but I like what I see. One thing this seems to indicate, though, is a continuing separation of the cosmologies of the different settings, like the devil-demon revision does; I guess I like the idea of a unified cosmology (which I will certainly feel free to use, no matter the edition ). I also have to say that this feels somewhat like the 4e fluff is being redone just because WotC can redo it, without other deep reasons.

To the others: I use the word retcon to refer to the monster, though I know the setting is new. If you go from the 3e MM to the 4e PH (?), you'll get a different creature and in a way that sounds like quite a big difference. This will probably make the 4e FRCS designers jump through all kinds of hoops explaining things, unless of course eladrins and elves are similar enough to be the sun/moon elves and wood/wild elves respectively.

Me, too. Of course, we may have differing opinions about the answers.

You know, I get the sense that we're all just talking about whether we like the setting or not, but that's perhaps a different thread, for another day (well, until I get my rest -- I'm like a 3e wizard, out of posts per day ).

 

[Merlion]

On a personal level, I dont much care for "wood elves" becoming the default, or "high" elves being given the name "Eladrin." But thats ok, chances are many will house rule it and call elves elves and wood elves wood elves. Things like this don't tend to get my dander up as much as other things.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Though I've disliked a lot of the flavour stuff in 4e so far (the rules, except the current guess at the skill system, look cool), I actually think the stuff they did with the Elves in this recent update is cool. What they did to the Eladrin, on the other hand, is incredibly awful. Why couldn't they just find a new name and not destroy an entire race of Celestials, and one I liked? Urk! If I ever run 4e, I'm going to have to break my trend of heavily planar-based adventures and campaigns because so far (admittedly so far being not much), I absolutely hate what they've done with the planes, even though much of the other stuff is at least 'Meh' level and often fair to cool (with this Elf stuff, other than the Eladrin ruination, being cool). But for me, kicking the planes in the junk and taking its stuff is a bigger deal than it may be for some.

 

[Wolv0rine]

Sounds like elves will be getting +2 Wis/-2 Int...

I like the flavor, it evokes Faerie and stuff like that. Not so keen on the art, though, The face looks a bit weird, and the pose is anything but natural. And I like Lee Moyer's art, so this seems really weird.

At least he can mostly draw a bow. I swear the sheer number of artists who apparently don't know how a bow woks or what one looks like well enough to 'elaborate' on the basic, fundamental shape of one continually staggers me. Although that grip section looks... unworkable. But at least the string connects reasonably to the shaft.

This all works for me, but then I was always an 'Elf Ranger trumps any other class for elves' kinda guy.

 

[Merlion]

Though I've disliked a lot of the flavour stuff in 4e so far (the rules, except the current guess at the skill system, look cool), I actually think the stuff they did with the Elves in this recent update is cool. What they did to the Eladrin, on the other hand, is incredibly awful. Why couldn't they just find a new name and not destroy an entire race of Celestials, and one I liked? Urk! If I ever run 4e, I'm going to have to break my trend of heavily planar-based adventures and campaigns because so far (admittedly so far being not much), I absolutely hate what they've done with the planes, even though much of the other stuff is at least 'Meh' level and often fair to cool (with this Elf stuff, other than the Eladrin ruination, being cool). But for me, kicking the planes in the junk and taking its stuff is a bigger deal than it may be for some.

I would say, why couldnt they just have Elves and Wood Elves in the PH, and let Eladrins remain Celestial Outisders?

 

[Rystil Arden]

I would say, why couldnt they just have Elves and Wood Elves in the PH, and let Eladrins remain Celestial Outisders?

Exactly. Or if they need another mystical feyish race that can't be called 'Elf', they could call it 'Sidhe'. That's a cool feyish elf-like (in appearance) race that wouldn't kill off the Eladrin race in the bargain.

 

[Dire Bare]

I'm liking it a lot. Physically robust, wise/perceptive, hardened outdoorsy warriors vs agile-but-frail, tightrope-walking lightweights? It's all good.

I'm also pretty happy with what I'm hearing about the eladrin. It confirms the eladrin are still in the game, their basic nature (uber-intelligent powerful "faerie lords") hasn't changed, and it gives them better definition. I'm a huge Planescape groupie, but I've always felt that eladrin were the least defined of the planar races. They're sort of like elves, you know, but... extraplanar.

One change that is implied, but not yet revealed of course, is that eladrins are no longer a racial "group" but a single race. So no ghaeles, bralani, coure, firre . . . .

I'm unsure how to feel about this yet. On one hand, I agree with several posters that this "reimagining" of elves and eladrin is powerfully done. And D&D has always been plagued by "like-elves" races, elves but not elves.

On the other hand, the existing 2nd and 3rd edition eladrin are classic creatures to me, and to lose their current status as a celestial race just doesn't sit well with me.

Guess we'll just have to wait until more info is revealed . . . .

 

[Traycor]

This is a HUGE difference to every D&D world I've seen. Are Eladrin going to take over Evermeet? or Aerenal or Celene? This is a MAJOR change to established settings, and any world were elves have a specific nation (and national flavor) are going to require some master re-jiggering...

Elain Cunningham on her blog recently said, "Although I don't know all the particulars, I was given enough information about changes coming to the Forgotten Realms to know what the future holds for Faerun's elves."

So maybe for FR, the Sun Elves are going to become Eladrin or something like that. ???

Source:
http://e-cunningham.livejournal.com/68272.html

 

[grimslade]

I like it. Elves should be all fey with feet of clay. There is the sense of loss (in the world too long) along with the alien, to humans, mind, living in the woods all natural. I like the fact that Corellon is a fey god, not just for elves. I like the thought of Obad-Hai being a wild god like Herne. I like the suggestion that Eladrin might be a fey outsider race. the tricksters and masters of the arcane. Faerie Courts and moonlit revels to throw at my players. The prose is not the greatest but i am all kinds of inspired from reading it.

 

[Traycor]

I don't think they'll be called subraces, but it seems (at this point, given that we know only a little!) that they will effectively be subraces. Matter of semantics?

I would say it's more than semantics. Subraces always have the same basic racial abilities, with noted changes.

From the looks of things, Eladrin and Elves will be totally and completely different, with a racial relation in fluff only. No actual crunch overlap.