New Design article: Elves

[Tarek]

It certainly does look like they're going back and taking a "Tolkien-ish" approach to elves; or perhaps more accurately, one inspired by the myths Tolkein drew from when creating Middle-Earth.

The Eldar/High/Gray/Faerie Elves become the Eladrin, dwelling close to the gods, while their cousins who chose not to stay in those realms become the wood or "standard" elves, and those who are corrupted by demons become tiefling elves/drow.

Elrond, in 4e terms, is half-Eladrin (not half-Elven), as is his brother and his daughter. Legolas, in 4e terms, is just an Elf.

That's what I see happening.

 

[Dire Bare]

I wonder if the "new" eladrin will have any relation to Cordell's "elder elves" . . . . you know, the ones who are responsible for the Far Realm leaking into our dimension?

 

[Mouseferatu]

I don't think they'll be called subraces, but it seems (at this point, given that we know only a little!) that they will effectively be subraces. Matter of semantics?

I don't think it is a matter of semantics. After all, races--more so than almost any other mechanic--are differentiated as much by flavor as by mechanics. Using 3.5 as an example, one could easily call half-elves "elves" and true elves "fey," and it would work just fine without changing the mechanics.

So if they write the elves as being an offshoot of the eladrin, and being very similar except for one or two differences, it's a subrace. If they write them as separate races that happen to spring from the same stock, they're related races.

I guess it's semantics as much as the differences between humans and dwarves are "semantic."

Depends if you like how it was to start. I haven't used eladrin myself and am only sort of familiar with them through recent Dungeon adventures (including STAP), but I like what I see. One thing this seems to indicate, though, is a continuing separation of the cosmologies of the different settings, like the devil-demon revision does; I guess I like the idea of a unified cosmology (which I will certainly feel free to use, no matter the edition ). I also have to say that this feels somewhat like the 4e fluff is being redone just because WotC can redo it, without other deep reasons.

Obviously, one's prior preferences are going to have an impact. No argument there.

I have it easier than some, because I didn't care for the plethora of different types of celestials. I found a lot of them unnecessary, and I've never used an eladrin in my life. I'm happy to see them reshaped to be more fey creatures; I think it fits them better.

And while I like the idea of a unified cosmology, ala Planescape, I like it as its own setting. I don't like it as the assumed default for other settings. (The unique setup of the planes is one of my favorite aspects of Eberron, f'rinstance.) And yes, I realize that may negate my use of the term "unifying," but there it is.

You know, I get the sense that we're all just talking about whether we like the setting or not, but that's perhaps a different thread, for another day (well, until I get my rest -- I'm like a 3e wizard, out of posts per day ).

We may well be. I happen to like most of what I've learned of the new setting, just as I like most of what I've learned of 4E in general, but I understand why others are less accepting of it than I am.

 

[Merlion]

Elrond, in 4e terms, is half-Eladrin (not half-Elven), as is his brother and his daughter. Legolas, in 4e terms, is just an Elf.

That's what I see happening.

I dont mean this contentiously but I dont think thats a very good analogy. Tolkiens Elves were all elves, wether Light, Dark or Grey, Noldar Teleri or Vanyar, Avari or...the names for the other groups that escape me at the moment. But they were all Elves.

I think having Elves that are "wood" elves and "Eladrin" that are regular Elves is a bit silly (if that is what they are doing.)

Especially since Eladrins have been, up till now, essentially the chaotic good "angels" of D&D.

 

[Fobok]

I don't mind this change. They made the wood elves the default in the core rather than the high/sun elves. That's fine. As long as other options are available in the FRCS. As for the Eladrin, I'm not too big on that change, but it's perfectly understandable.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Just another random thought...

We're still looking at this in a vacuum. We have no idea what other changes might've inspired the change in the eladrin. If alignment is becoming less of a factor, for instance, there might be no purpose to having multiple celestial types. The bralani and ghaele might just be types of angels.

Or, consider this possibility. Perhaps the eladrin known to dwell amongst mortals are simply the weakest of their kin, the fey that interact most frequently with the material plane. In other worlds, places with strange names like Arcadia and Arborea, far more alien eladrin, with powers beyond those comprehensible to mortals and strange titles like "ghaele" and "bralani," are said to dwell.

This allows for both the PC eladrin and the more potent ones who--except for being "fey" rather than "outsiders"--still serve more or less the same purpose in the multiverse.

Not that I think that's actually what's happening (though it might be cool if it was), but my point is, we lack anything even vaguely approaching context for this (or any other) change.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Hmmm... I'm not so sure...

This is a HUGE difference to every D&D world I've seen. Are Eladrin going to take over Evermeet? or Aerenal or Celene? This is a MAJOR change to established settings, and any world were elves have a specific nation (and national flavor) are going to require some master re-jiggering.

As a separate entity, I do like the change, but the ramification's on current settings is much larger than the spotlight moving off gnomes or the changes to fiends...

Evermeet will be the same, they'll just call them subraces of elves, instead of eladrin.

Names are the single easiest thing to change in a campaign setting.

 

[KingCrab]

Also, looks like they're ditching the whole Elves=Magical Race that 3e had (Favored class: Wizard). Looks more like they're rangers and druids first, anything else second.

That, I like. I see elves as Rangers and Druids before anything else.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I like it.

They are a *lot* closer to my house ruled generic Elf, IOW the "Sylvan" variety.

Maybe that's why.


No really, they do sound good. And they. . . make more sense? Yes, that's it.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I wonder if the "new" eladrin will have any relation to Cordell's "elder elves" . . . . you know, the ones who are responsible for the Far Realm leaking into our dimension?

That'd be nice.