New Dm + New Player = HELP!!

[Hillsy7]

Hey guys.

Looking for some advice on how to deal with a potential sticky issue. I've played 4e a bit and I'm solid enough with the numbers to spot an error when I see one. I've decided to take the plunge and DM my first game over an internet client, and all of the participants are relative newbs to 4e, but one in particular is new to all RPGs. Anyway, he's built a character for the game (as has everyone else) however he's missed out a vital stat in favour of boosting another to max (like a human cleric maxing Wis at 20 but leaving STR and charisma at 10). It's workable but as they are new to the game, they've gone on to pick a lot of powers based on "STR vs" attacks.

I've reminded him he's welcome to ask me for any help or tips, but he's said he'd like to make the mistakes himself as part of the learning process. However, something like this means he's going to "whiff" so much his powers wont fire, and his enjoyment of the combat element will probably diminish.

How do I broach the subject without:
a) making him feel like an idiot
b) Looking like a prick
c) set a precedent I'm likely to regret
d) allowing him to make mistakes on his own
e) freaking out myself as I've never DM's before and I'm not great with pointing out errors (a personal fear of looking smug and/or arrogant)

(As a note I've not met these guys before - they've just all come from a forum for players looking for games)

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

You can just tell him what the problem with having a low Strength is. If he reacts badly to that, you probably don't want him in the group.

 

[OnlineDM]

Here's my suggestion of what you can say (plugging in names and numbers as appropriate):

Hi NewGuy! I know you wanted to handle your character on your own, but I wanted to point something out that you might not have noticed.

Some of your powers use Wisdom, which is a really high stat for you, and you'll note that those attacks are +7 versus AC. The kind of monsters you'll fight at this level are likely to have an AC around 15 or 16, which means your Wisdom attacks will hit if you roll an 8 or 9 or better. That's pretty normal for D&D.

You also picked some attacks that are based on your Strength, which is a very low stat for your character. Those attacks are only +2 versus AC, which means you'll need to roll a 13 or 14 or better to hit the kind of monsters you're going to face. That's fine as long as you're okay with it, but it does mean that you're going to miss with those attacks a lot more than most characters.

See you at our next game!

 

[fenriswolf456]

Also keep in mind that brand new players often need to actually play to get a feel of how combat works. My first 4E character was a similar type of cleric, high WIS, low STR, and had a STR-based ability that I found I couldn't use effectively, and trained out of it. Maybe try and find out what kind of character he is envisioning, as a lot of STR-based abilities suggests a character who gets into the thick of things in a fight, and so having a STR bonus, even a small one, will better fit the concept. If not, then suggest WIS-based powers that produce similar effects or would be more effective for the concept.

Like OnlineDM said, giving some basic numbers is a good idea. A new player isn't going to have an idea of what values they are tring to roll against, so their bonuses to hit are rather nebulous until they see it in play.

You may want to be generous and allow the new players to retrain multiple abilities if they come to feel that it isn't effective or fitting with their character concept after all. Check in after sessions for the first couple of encounters to ensure the player is enjoying the game still.

In the end, though, the player should be able to play what they want and if they're having fun with high WIS/low STR, then it's all good.

 

[the Jester]

You could let him learn on his own with the understanding that he can retrain two powers/level instead of one for his first couple of levels.

 

[Hillsy7]

Course! Forgot completely about training out abilities each level.....what a fool!....lol

Thanks for the advice dudes, think a 2 pronged approach might be a good way to do it - just drop in on the first one about trading our abilities every level and hopefully that should give him loads of options.

Problem is he's got a very strong core concept for the character and I think he went down that route - which is cool, but needs good power selections. And like someone said, at the end of the day they can play what they want....=0)

 

[Spatula]

Let him make the mistakes. If nothing else, the other players might notice ("You rolled a 15 and missed?!?") and say something instead of you.

Some folks are happy to be corrected, some will take it personally. Until you know him better, I would keep out of it.

 

[Scotley]

It is a tough situation. One man's mistake is another man's roleplay. Some people do prefer suboptimal builds in the interest of their vision.

Assuming this is an honest mistake of an inexperience person I'd just say up front to everyone that retraining is an option. I often start a game off with a 'tuneup' fight to let everyone see how their build and ideas of personality work in play. Afterward, I give players a chance to make some changes to their characters before we start adventuring in earnest. I suppose it causes some gaps in reality to do things that way, but it also reduces drop out and the tendency for people to get bored with a character. Once that happens you may lose a player or have them do something dramatic like let their character get killed to build another one. Worse yet, they might spoil the game for others because they aren't having fun. I hope you find a solution that works for you.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I would not worry overly about it.

I usually let my players, even experienced ones, redo t heir characters after the first few sessions, to better mesh with the other players and/or to match their concept of the character better.

 

[ACGalaga]

I would not worry overly about it.

I usually let my players, even experienced ones, redo t heir characters after the first few sessions, to better mesh with the other players and/or to match their concept of the character better.

Yeah, I did this too. Since i'm a new DM as well, and most of the players are new, I allowed them to adjust/fix their characters once before our next game.

After playing only once, they had a much better idea of what worked, what didn't work, and how their powers work.

Thing is, I told them they could only do this once since we can't be changing our characters around every game.