New haste on WotC website!

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

If it is a problem, Kingdom of Kalamar offers a metamagic feat that gives the caster +2 to the SR check for every level the spell is cast higher - that magic missle cast at level 7 will add 12 to the SR check. A sorcerer can use it as needed on th fly and affect many a creature with SR. Save DC is not affected, unlike the various spell power abilities.

I can't resist...

I would ban such a feat. Of course, I have the excuse that it isn't core...

I don't have a problem with SR - it should hurt spellcasters - just like DR should hurt fighters.

The problem is, DR does not hurt fighters, so spellcasters feel they are being nerfed. BTW why not use no-save Wall of Force?

That beats anything small enough to fit in it that can't teleport. There are other nasty spells for bigger creatures.

 

[Fenes 2]

I can't resist...

I would ban such a feat. Of course, I have the excuse that it isn't core...

I don't have a problem with SR - it should hurt spellcasters - just like DR should hurt fighters.

The problem is, DR does not hurt fighters, so spellcasters feel they are being nerfed. BTW why not use no-save Wall of Force?

That beats anything small enough to fit in it that can't teleport. There are other nasty spells for bigger creatures.

If a player of a spellcaster wants to blast creatures I won't force him to change tactics. Same goes for the player of a melee character - if he has fun charging doors and creatures I won't force him to play more cautiously.

 

[The_Gneech]

Well, your DM isn't doing his homework then! Spellcasters can be defeated by sneaky DMs far easier and far more effectively than weapon-wielders. Repeat after me, "Spell Resistance".

"But hey, no monsters get spell resistance."

"Really? Ever looked at outsiders? Ever put the Fiendish template on anything?"

Make some fiendish monsters with fire resistance (and there are heap), and check out how far your fireball toting sorcerer gets then.

At high levels, spellcasters are consigned to party support, cos' they can never directly affect the enemy, who has resistances, immunities, and saving throws up the kazoo.

Al'Kelhar (pissed at the SR mechanic in 3E)

That's as may be ... he also doesn't really understand SR's new mechanic and doesn't much care for it.

We're playing "Liberation of Geoff," so the monsters are pretty much giants, giants, and more giants ... I have no idea if any giants have SR. I've made a point of not looking at their stats to avoid cheating.

-TG

 

[LordAO]

If they're going to nerf haste, fine. Then give my Wiz/Sor some other options. Make Quicken spell less ridiculously expensive (the ability to cast an extra spell per round is NOT worth four extra spell levels), allow Sorcerers to quicken (wow what an idea, actually allowing a character to use a feat he purchased), and/or make an improved haste say at 5th level or so that does what the old hast did. The iterative spellcasting idea mentioned beofre is also worth looking into.

Right now Wizards and Sorcerers are just not balanced with other classes. Both get horribly sh*tty skill points and Sorcerers don't have a single skill that is based on Cha. They have crap for hit points, saves, and attack bonus, and to add insult to injury, they can't use spells in armor (at least not effectively). And the Wizard doesn't even have as many spells per day s the Cleric, who have none of those afformentioned problems. The least they could do is give the Wiz the same spells/day as the cleric.

Sigh.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The least they could do is give the Wiz the same spells/day as the cleric.

Like a specialist, say?

-Hyp.

 

[med stud]

Wizards shouldnt be able to compete with fighters in straight damage dealing IMO. The only thing a fighter can do is hurt things in combat (and climb, jump and ride), while a wizard can teleport, charm, fly, make things invisible, divine, etc. Therefore I think the fighters should be the most dangerous thing in combat when it comes to straight out killing things.

Outside a combat, a wizard can do everything better then a fighter, especially if the PCs get a downtime of three days so that the wizard can pick the right spells for the occasion.

I banned the 3e Haste a soon as I saw it because of this; when wizards start to rule combats as well as non combat situations the fighters become a flavour- addition to the wizards, or some tool for mopping up resistance not worthy of the wizard's attention. The new haste is maybe not a great spell, but checking through the 3rd lvl spells I think it is on par with other 3rd lvl spells.

 

[LordAO]

Like a specialist, say?

-Hyp.

Even a specialist Wizards doesn't have as many spells per day as a Cleric! The Wizard gets a base of 4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4 at 20th level, the cleric gets 6/5/5/5/5/5/4/4/4/4 plus domain spells!

IMO the Wizards should be a better spellcaster than the Cleric, not worse. Clerics have d8 hps, wiz have d4. clerics have the medium attack bonus, wizards have the worst, clerics have good fort and will saves, wiz only good will, clerics can wear armor and use spells without problems, clerics have better weapon proficiencies, clerics have better class skill selction, they get all of their spells for FREE, etc etc etc.

Since the cleric is nearly as good a fighter as a fighter, isn't it only fair the the Wizard who is solely dedicated to spellcasting should be better at it? Yet they give the Wizard LESS spells per day than the cleric, especially when you count domain spells. Sure, a Wiz can specialize, but they requires a huge sacrifice by the Wiz. And even that doesn't even the playing field.

So, no I didn't mind the old haste at all. It was the one and only Wizard buff spell that was on par with Clerical buffs. And I don't know about the idea that Wizards shouldn't be good in combat. Look at all the combat spells they have! And the old haste never made the fighter obsolite at all, at least not in the games I've played! Wizards do have a broad selection of spells, for in and out of combat, this is true. But Wizards also have the preparation problem. Wizards have a limited supply of magical firepower. And they have to think very carefully about when and where to use it. Every spell they cast in one battle is one less spell they will have later, when they might need it most. And even then, the damage potential of spells is better than what a fighter can deal in a single attack, but unlike the fighter it can't be used every round. Fighters really don't have limits on what they do best. They always were and always will be the best at combat, despite haste and other considerations. Besides, I usually did cast haste on my friends as well, not just myself.

The class you should worry about is the Cleric, not the Wizard. After all, they are nearly equal to fighters already, plus add in more spells than even a Wizard can do, spells like Harm and Heal, and definately all of the best buff spells in the game, and a CLeric can easily surpass every other class in performance, both in and out of combat.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Even a specialist Wizards doesn't have as many spells per day as a Cleric!

Point taken

-Hyp.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Actually, it wasn't a no brainer unless the wizard or sorceror was high enough level that he didn't have to worry about the number of spell slots he had left.

When casting Haste, you give up only one aditional 3rd-level spell slot - the one you used to cast Haste.

The opposition dies more quickly since you're more effective, so you shouldn't have to cast extra spells. Furthermore, once combat is over, you don't have to use up those last few rounds of Haste casting spells.

If you're high enough level that burning four 3rd-level spell slots a day doesn't bother you, then casting Haste is a "no-brainer."

I can think of a spellcaster's Haste, but I don't know how balanced this version is:

1) As Haste 3.0, but it takes a full-round action to cast.
2) As Haste 3.0, but you can only cast up to 3rd-level spells with the extra partial action.

Using both is probably too much of a nerf. I think version #2 is a lot better Now to do something about movement followed by full-round attacks...

The best part about this variant spell: it still lets a wizard cast a defensive buff and an offensive spell in the same round, so the wizardc doesn't take forever buffing himself in combat. If he wants to cast a more powerful buff, like stoneskin, it still costs him a typical standard action.