New haste on WotC website!

[The_Gneech]

Now, every group needs a teleporting identify machine who can't do squat in combat-- but who on earth would want to be one?)

Um ... huh?

In the game in which I play, everybody else in the group is sick of the wizard because in just about every combat the wizard obliterates all the foes in a handful of rounds while the rest of us are still trying to get to them -- and that's without using haste.

If our group's wizard starts using 3e haste, I'm just going to leave the room until the combat's over because none of the rest of us are necessary. Fortunately, that should be quick enough that all I need to do is pop into the kitchen for a snack.

The 3.5e haste is 200% an improvement!

-The Gneech

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Who said anything about hasting in _every_ battle?

There is a rule of thumb in our high-level group: you can tell when the sh*t has hit the fan, because that's when all the haste items get broken out. This is a stupid situation, when one spell (not even a particularly high-level one) becomes critical to the resolution of significant combats. It's also a boring situation, because the first action in these combats is, invariably, "I activate haste".

I don't know that "I activate haste" is any more boring than "I rapid shot" (for attacks at +infinity/+infinity/+almost infinity/+50/+45 dealing 1d8+14+insaned6 damage each), "I draw my sword and activate its flaming property", "I cast shield", or "I cast a heightened disintegrate and if it doesn't work, follow it up with a quickened baneful polymorph." For that matter, I doubt you would find "I cast blink and move thirty feet, when I threaten the hydra, my Expert Tactician feat kicks in and I attack it" to be any less repetitive. Nor do most people complain that the first action in any combat against a high level spellcaster was usually dispel magic (or slow).

PCs will regularly use tactics that work. If there are no tactics they regularly use in everything hit the fan situations, it probably means that there are no tactics that regularly work in high pressure situations. (And even if there are equally viable tactics that regularly work, most PCs will have to pick one of those tactics so the individual DM and player aren't likely to see much more variety). And having no tactics that regularly work, IMHO, would be a big problem for game balance.

IME, empowered bull's strengths, magic vestment, GMW, and endurance spells are also critical to the resolution of high level combats and I wouldn't necessarily say that haste cast in round 1 is more critical than the empowered bull's strength cast at dawn. None of those are particularly high level spells either.

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

We at S.H.I.N.Y. find this new version of Haste appalling. It still remains a spell that every Wizard/Sor has to cast before a battle... and, as P-Cat and others have said, it makes Mass Haste useless.

The S.H.I.N.Y. offices have been flooded with calls and an organized march is being planned. Pickett signs include:

Haste: Love it or Leave it Alone
New Haste is like New Coke
You Killed Mass Haste!

In short, we at S.H.I.N.Y. hate to see our beloved 3E torn to pieces. We urge all players to go back to 2E in protest.

 

[hong]

I don't know that "I activate haste" is any more boring than "I rapid shot" (for attacks at +infinity/+infinity/+almost infinity/+50/+45 dealing 1d8+14+insaned6 damage each),

Yes, Rapid Shot is boring too. My current archer PC is probably the only twink archer in existence WITHOUT Rapid Shot.

"I draw my sword and activate its flaming property",

Multiple energy enchantments can get silly, yes.

"I cast shield",

The "sh*t, shower, shave, cat's grace" daily buffup routine can get silly, yes.

or "I cast a heightened disintegrate and if it doesn't work, follow it up with a quickened baneful polymorph."

I banned polymorph other from my game, and did the same with disintegrate at first. Now I've put disintegrate back in, but have it deal hit point damage as per the Andy Collins article.

For that matter, I doubt you would find "I cast blink and move thirty feet,

I banned blink from my game too.

when I threaten the hydra, my Expert Tactician feat kicks in

I banned Expert Tactician from my game too.

and I attack it" to be any less repetitive. Nor do most people complain that the first action in any combat against a high level spellcaster was usually dispel magic (or slow).

It is? I hadn't noticed. Perhaps the fact that noone else complains about dispel magic should serve as a (obviously remarkably subtle) hint that this tactic isn't so blindingly obvious as to become a no-brainer, nor so mind-numbingly frequent as to become an irritation.

PCs will regularly use tactics that work.

Until you ban them, yes. It's a remarkably effective solution.

IME, empowered bull's strengths, magic vestment, GMW, and endurance spells are also critical to the resolution of high level combats

GMW doesn't exist as a (cleric) spell in my game either, nor do I have wizards who can afford to accumulate spells in a carefree manner (banned them too).

Is there any other cheesy tactic you'd like me to ban?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I banned polymorph other from my game, and did the same with disintegrate at first.
I banned blink from my game too.
I banned Expert Tactician from my game too.
Until you ban them, yes. It's a remarkably effective solution.
GMW doesn't exist as a (cleric) spell in my game either, nor do I have wizards who can afford to accumulate spells in a carefree manner (banned them too).

So what's this game you play? I hear it's vaguely reminiscent of D&D?

-Hyp.

 

[Rel]

Is there any other cheesy tactic you'd like me to ban?

I've noticed that almost every single combat round the players in my group are having fun. I'm thinking of banning that.

What say you, hong?

 

[hong]

So what's this game you play? I hear it's vaguely reminiscent of D&D?

Indeed. Here are some other changes, in case anyone's brane hasn't explodiated yet:

- no clerics, druids, monks, paladins or wizards
- primary divine caster is the OA shaman, with a tweaked bonus feat list ("druid")
- primary arcane caster is the sorcerer, using the OA wu jen spell list ("mage")
- gave sorcs and bards bonus feats
- removed TWF from ranger, gave bonus feats every 5 levels as replacement
- replaced paladins with a modified OA samurai ("knight")
- dropped hit points for a (heavily modified) VP/WP system
- dropped the law/chaos alignment axis for spells and spell effects
- selected list of prestige classes
- modified cure spells to work off target's level/HD, as opposed to caster level
- by using OA spell lists, a lot of the more notorious spells are eliminated. Some that still remain (slay living, finger of death, poly other) are dropped or nerfed
- no splatbook feats, with a few exceptions (mostly OA)
- allowed imbued magic as a complement/replacement for regular magic items

See? Nothing much, really.

 

[hong]

I've noticed that almost every single combat round the players in my group are having fun. I'm thinking of banning that.

What say you, hong?

Hey, you don't need ME to say anything. Although I'm glad to see that people are FINALLY coming round to asking me to approve any changes they make to their campaigns. I swear, I don't know why it takes some eeediots so long to get with the pogrom.


Hong "it's good to be the king" Ooi

 

[Piratecat]

Indeed. Here are some other changes, in case anyone's brane hasn't explodiated yet:... See? Nothing much, really.

I'm using the core rules as written, except I've banned dice.

 

[Rel]

Hey, you don't need ME to say anything. Although I'm glad to see that people are FINALLY coming round to asking me to approve any changes they make to their campaigns. I swear, I don't know why it takes some eeediots so long to get with the pogrom.


Hong "it's good to be the king" Ooi

Actually, hong, upon further reflection (and just to show my rebel spirit), I'm going to take the exact opposite of my proposed "banning of fun". Instead, I'm going to ban everything BUT fun.

Next session, we'll sit down and I'll say, "I'm banning everything but fun from now on. No more character classes, to-hit rolls, monsters, magic items, Haste (3.0 or 3.5) or any of that sort of thing. Nothing but fun. All fun, all the time. And definately no Harm (with or without a saving throw) or Greater Magic Weapon. And no Archers. Of any kind. They're not fun."

We'll just grin at each other for four hours and go home. That should be...fun.