New haste on WotC website!

[Elder-Basilisk]

Actually, it wasn't a no brainer unless the wizard or sorceror was high enough level that he didn't have to worry about the number of spell slots he had left. For a wizard with two haste spells prepared, it won't be the first thing cast unless he's got reason to believe that either A. it's necessary to survive--or B. this is likely to be one of the two toughest battles he'll face that day (and it wouldn't be better cast on another party member--after all, if you're only going to cast one haste spell in a battle, you are not necessarily the obvious target).

As the wizard or sorceror increases in level, the pressure is slightly released as more slots become available but even for a Wiz 11 or a Ftr 2/Wiz 6/Spellsword 2, it's not a no-brainer to prepare enough hastes to haste yourself every battle. You might want a Slow or a Blink or a pair of fireballs or a Greater Magic Weapon.

Unlike the fighter often charging or the rogue getting into position for sneak attacks, the thing with haste is that the wizard would cast it first thing, on himself, no matter what the situation was. It was a no-brainer. You cannot tell me that a fighter charging into battle is always a no-brainer unless your fighter has no brain.

 

[MerricB]

From Andy Collins' messageboards

Andy: Not a typo. Haste now looks a lot more like it did in previous editions of the game (speeds up your whole party).

Mass haste is gone (though there are a few new mass spells added in...).

Cheers!

 

[Aluvial]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rs/20030429a

Haste
Transmutation

All of the hasted creature's modes of movement (including land movement, burrow, climb, fly, and swim) increase by 30 feet, to a maximum of twice the subject's normal speed using that form of movement. This increase counts as an enhancement bonus, and it affects the creature's jumping distance as normal for increased speed.

Ok, so my question is this. Do you move 30' more or do you move twice your whatever speed?

This bothers me. It could be either because it says either in two different parts of the same sentence.

I don't care about which Haste they use, I only care that the rules are written clearly!

If I'm not mistaken this shoudl say, "All of the hasted creature's modes of movement (including blah, blah, blah) increase by 30' OR up to twice their normal if they move less than 30'."

And this should be included too, "For Example, a creature with a move of 20' can move 40' during a move-equivalent action. A creature with a move of 30' can move 60'... and a creature with greater than 30' can move their movement PLUS another 30' (only) for a MEA."

Or put in a chart. Or anything that makes it CLEAR.

I don't care if effects everything, one thing, nothing, lasts forever or for one round. Just make the rules crystal!

Aluvial

 

[hong]

As the wizard or sorceror increases in level, the pressure is slightly released as more slots become available but even for a Wiz 11 or a Ftr 2/Wiz 6/Spellsword 2, it's not a no-brainer to prepare enough hastes to haste yourself every battle. You might want a Slow or a Blink or a pair of fireballs or a Greater Magic Weapon.

Who said anything about hasting in _every_ battle?

There is a rule of thumb in our high-level group: you can tell when the sh*t has hit the fan, because that's when all the haste items get broken out. This is a stupid situation, when one spell (not even a particularly high-level one) becomes critical to the resolution of significant combats. It's also a boring situation, because the first action in these combats is, invariably, "I activate haste".

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: New haste on WotC website!

I don't care about which Haste they use, I only care that the rules are written clearly!

You've interpreted it correctly... what's ambiguous about it?

Your proposed revision uses four times as many words - plus a chart - to say exactly the same thing they've said.

-Hyp.

 

[MerricB]

The one mistake they have in the wording is to say "any weapon" instead of "any one weapon".

In theory, they mean the same thing. In practice, people get confused. This also happened during the early days of MtG, incidentally.

Cheers!

 

[drnuncheon]

Re: Re: New haste on WotC website!

Ok, so my question is this. Do you move 30' more or do you move twice your whatever speed?

This bothers me. It could be either because it says either in two different parts of the same sentence.

"All of the hasted creature's modes of movement (including land movement, burrow, climb, fly, and swim) increase by 30 feet, to a maximum of twice the subject's normal speed using that form of movement."

I don't see what's unclear about that - you get an enhancement bonus of 30 feet to your speed, unless that would more than double it, in which case you just double it.

I guess the only change I can see that might be used for clarity is the inclusion of the words "up to" in front of "30 feet".

J

 

[Bauglir]

What if fighters gained iterative attacks through a feat?

Would everyone take that feat? Yes
Would that feat be overpowered? Yes
Would getting rid of that feat make the game balanced? Hell no

Fighters would be stuck with a single attack nomatter their level, and would be horribly weak as they advanced up through the levels.

Haste provides an effect that damage dealing wizards (and esp sorcerers) require to compete as levels advance. So you don't like the way it was packaged? Fair enough, make it a class ability, or provide an alternative.

 

[shilsen]

Haste provides an effect that damage dealing wizards (and esp sorcerers) require to compete as levels advance.

As someone (can't recall who) posted earlier, spellcasters (in 3e) don't compete with PCs making physical attacks (melee or ranged) on the basis of damage. The spellcaster's forte in combat is doing damage to multiple opponents at once, or incapacitating and destroying single opponents instantly (save or die spells).

A non-spellcaster has to take down opponents by chipping away at their hit points. A spellcaster can bypass the hit point issue and destroy them, which is why them causing less damage than non-spellcasters works fine.

 

[MerricB]

Fighters gain iterative attacks, wizards gain more powerful spells. The two are balanced against each other.

When wizards can cast two 9th level spells per round, they're twice as powerful as the fighter.

Consider a 5th level fighter and a 5th level wizard.

The 5th level fighter probably has a +10 attack bonus or so and a weapon that deals 2d6+9 - or 16 average - damage to one creature per round.

The 5th level wizard has a fireball spell that deals 5d6 damage - or 17.5 average - damage to multiple creatures in a single round, with a DC of 16 or 18 for half-damage.

At high levels, the fighter is getting four attacks per round, and dealing great amounts of damage - generally to just one creature, because they're so tough.

The wizard is going "save or die" to his or her opponents.

Seems that there is a balance there.

There are opponents the wizard finds easy and the fighter struggles against; and vice versa.

In the context of the game, you don't want the wizard nor the fighter being useless for most of the combats. The 3E version of haste just made the wizard so much more useful in combat than the fighter that this essential aspect of balance was disturbed.

Cheers!