NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

[jedrious]

another option is to limit divine ability granting artifacts to use the ECL/2.8 formula for determining the bonus, or even create a new category of artifact, Divine Ability Granting ECL/4 for determining the bonus

 

[WarDragon]

But that becomes a problem when you mix different types of things. For example, armor that also gives Perfect Damage Reduction, or a Cloak of Charisma that doubles your spells known.

 

[jedrious]

or it simplifies the matter by making it to where you can't cherry pick when an artifact will grant a divine ability, also it will make it to where you have to be ecl 144 and have not had the artifact grant you anything up until that point to get a cosmic ability, which puts it into the realm of upper level Intermediate Deities and Greater Deities where it won't have quite as much impact on balance than at ecl 72 which is high demi-deity and above

 

[dante58701]

I'm inclined to believe that you don't get enough divine/cosmic/ect. abilities. I look at all the abilities there are that stack (Force Field, Fortuity, ect.) and keep thinking to myself...how the hell is anyone supposed to make use of those abilities if you having to spend your divine ability slots on more powerful abilities just to keep up with other deities who will most definitely be acquiring the more powerful abilities.

Lets look at the Greater Deity as a prime example. In Deities and Demigods a Greater Deity is likely to have far more devastating abilities that a deity from Immortal's Handbook. Sure the template looks nice on paper...but overall an average Deities and Demigods Greater Deity would stomp an average Immortal's Handbook Greater Deity right into the ground. This is primarily because of the difference in how divine abilities are alloted.

Perhaps there is a rule Im unaware of the lets you snag up more divine abilities???

I tend to go with quantity and quality rather than one extreme or the other. I like to have lots of divine abilities (10-20) and maybe a small handful of cosmic abilities (3-6).

I guess you could say Im the kinda guy that would prefer a swiss army multi-utility knife to a bowie knife the size of the Kong himself.

Also...and far more important.


GREATER DIVINE AURA...

SLEEP...exactly how the hell does one defend oneself when one is SLEEPING!?!?!?!

My ruling is to change this to CANNOT DEFEND. I dont knw about you, but I sure the hell can't fight even to defend myself when Im sleeping.

Im guessing you based this on SYMBOL OF SLEEP...which does not allow defense of self.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys,

just to let you know first of all that I have amended my hours at work, although it won't take effect for another week and a half (although I am off from Wednesday to Sunday anyway, so thats not a massive downside).

Hi paradox42 mate!

I was already planning on placing limits on esoteric abilities myself- though admittedly as part of the package deal of being able to purchase "higher" abilities for multiple lesser ones. I.e. if I allow a mortal to get a Divine ability by spending six feats, that's going to count against the number of esoterics the character is allowed to have. My inclination was to limit this to one, but I admittedly haven't investigated it heavily by building characters and seeing what comes out. Honestly, my two powergamer players are better at that sort of thing than I am, so maybe I should hand off the idea to them and see what they can come up with.

As for Artifacts, I would say that any limit on the abilities offered by a particular artifact should be dependent on the Artifact's maker- thus, if the Artifact is made by (or, being blunt, part of) a Deity, then it should be limited to at most one Cosmic ability regardless of how many equivalent Divine abilities the artifact is "worth." This is why artifacts are used, and why they are valuable: they allow the creator to bend or break limits like the one-esoteric-ability rule. Also, I would suggest that any artifact containing what would be, for the possessor, an esoteric ability, should carry drawbacks automatically and not always work as intended. The "power with a price" trope is cliché, but it's cliché for a reason. This, in turn, would prevent deities from loading their artifacts up with Cosmics to get power equivalent to a First One (but on that topic I should really take care to point out that a mere 8 Cosmics does not in fact grant the power of a First One, since the First One template itself grants a Transcendental ability and several other Cosmics the First One doesn't have to spend its own "slots" on), and would actually make them think carefully about loading up with more than one or two Cosmics at all.

You've hit the jackpot. I love that idea!!!

It makes sense of why Mortals have drawbacks to using Artifacts (with divine abilities) but deities do not...because to mortals divine abilities are esoteric.

Expect this to be Immortals Handbook canon by the next update.

 

[mercucio]

And consider it to be promptly ignored. You earned that artifact, you didn't find it lying on the street. The drawbacks of artifacts were meant to prevent players from munching out when there was no limit to the # of artifacts they could possess (i.e. 1st-3.5). In IH artifacts are manifestation of your soul, and to put it quite simply: you EARNED those powers.

Now if it was some kind of relic you found during a divine adventure, drawbacks make perfect sense so the additional power it represents to the PC doesn't unduely wreck game balance.

 

[dante58701]

Agreed, consider it promptly ignored. You should make it an optional rule rather than canon.

The game is already complicated enough without adding senseless rules.

 

[WarDragon]

Third'd. Go with the cost multiplier (maybe 50%?), if you must nerf it.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

And consider it to be promptly ignored.

But it makes perfect sense - it only applies to esoteric abilites.

I'm getting conflicting signals here guys. On the one hand its too easy to get cosmics powers beyond your station by putting them in artifacts, on the other hand you don't want such things limited. Which is it?

You earned that artifact, you didn't find it lying on the street.

Yes but there is nothing to say that your artifact must possess esoteric powers - is there?

The drawbacks of artifacts were meant to prevent players from munching out when there was no limit to the # of artifacts they could possess (i.e. 1st-3.5). In IH artifacts are manifestation of your soul, and to put it quite simply: you EARNED those powers.

Thats true to an extent, but what we are talking about is kerbing the potential abuse of an unlimited advancement allowing you to reach far beyond your station. In effect 'bag' multiple cosmic powers before you should be allowed to.

Now if it was some kind of relic you found during a divine adventure, drawbacks make perfect sense so the additional power it represents to the PC doesn't unduely wreck game balance.

To me drawbacks make perfect sense for esoteric powers in artifacts. Its like saying kids shouldn't be playing with matches in case they get burnt.

But I guess I could make it optional...spoilsports.

 

[mercucio]

Hey guys!





But it makes perfect sense - it only applies to esoteric abilites.

I'm getting conflicting signals here guys. On the one hand its too easy to get cosmics powers beyond your station by putting them in artifacts, on the other hand you don't want such things limited. Which is it?

No, we're not giving you mixed signals. We said straight out that their should be an increased cost for having esoterics on artifacts, like 1.33 or 1.5. Requiring a drawback is cumbersome and only complicates the game unnecessarily. While I suppose one could take a drawback to negate the cost multiplier for placing esoterics on an artifact, forcing players to have a drawback is pain for them and the DM. Also, even with a cost multiplier players should probally still be limited to 1 esoteric ability per artifact.