New Mechanic: Equipment Limits (Poise Update 8/15)

[Exen Trik]

interesting ideas
but i'd recommend not basing the might penalties on simple/martial/exotic

as you have it, a rapier has a higher penalty than a morningstar

You're right on that, I'll be having simple weapons use the same rules as martial and exotic ones.

First a Suggestion for new names: Capacity can be called Aptitude ( Magical Aptitude being the longer version) I will call it that from now on. Whish I could think of a good name for the three of them: Limits, capabilities, although I suppose they could all be called Capacities be confusing for us reading the thread though.

Aptitude sounds alright, although the word is more associated with learning. I was actually considering using "Power", general as it may be. Capability works fine for the overall term in place of limits, and like capacity it can be shortened to "Cap" which fits nicely: the equipment limit is "Might Cap" for example.

I'm not going to change the terms just yet though, when I start releasing larger portions of the project I'll have names and such updated. I'm just going to worry about the mechanics for this thread here.

I'm trying to point out that Classes's typical stats reinforce the limits (Capacity, Readiness, and Might) that they are good at because of their Saves. This exagerates their all ready good limits even more and makes there bad limits even worse.

I don't think it is really a problem. It doesn't make any class stronger than before, their poor limits are things they shouldn't need as much and they often won't need all of their good ones. As for monks, I'm considering some special rules for them in this system.

Therefore I believe that we should make the system even simplier, and less unbalanced along class lines.

The point here is to reinforce archtypical equipment when multiclassing is common enough that proficiency is less an issue. But if you want to remove that and make everything the same for every player of every build, well thats fine too, it's really just a different style. They should otherwise work the same though.

I have a few thoughts one is having them do alternating -1 to AC and then -1 to Attack

I do want the effect of exceeding your might score to be severe enough to warrant not doing it at all. A penalty to hit of -1 per point does that well enough, and unless you are a heavily armored rogue or bard it should hardly ever come up. Still, I've reconsidered the AC penalty, even for only dex bonuses so I'll just remove it. Armor does that already anyways.

Finally all though this could be another effect : some sort of relation to Movemment penalties of armour types and AC Check penalties to might scores.

I had actually considered tying up all the effects of armor into this system: the movement, check penalties, arcane failure, etc. I decided not to go there, since balancing it all would be difficult, or at least more complicated than I'm going for.

I'll be updating the main post soon to reflect these changes.

 

[Thondor]

Might

Movement:
Part of my thoughts on this is that rationally someone with a really high might score in a Breastplate should be able to move as well or almost as well as a someone with low might in a Chain Shirt. I've never really liked the way movement is limited by armour - with no real way of ameliorating the drawbacks. Nor Have i ever really understood the importance of the distinction between Medium and Heavy armour - (Does Heavy only let you run 3X while medium 4X can't remember)

Sooo how could Might possibly affect this.

Hmmmmm,
1. If you exceed your Might score you suffer a -5ft movement.
2. If your exceed your Might score by double your score you suffer another -5ft penalty
3. If your Might score exceeds your current load by 5 you can move, penalties to your movement rate are reduced by 5ft (ie a human wearing hide can move 25ft , a halfling can mmove 20ft)

huh, not sure this is quite right. And I am actually considering upping Gnome and halfling and Dwarf movement to 25ft.

Another thought Fatigue -
Maybe the penalty to exceeding your might score sould not occur immediately but rather after several rounds of combat -- more complicated yes. Is it worth the effort?

Finally - other encumberances?
If the character is fighting with 30 000 gold pieces and a backpack full of odds and ends spare armour, 10 books, a ten foot pole, bedroll, tent, 15 days of trail rations, the head of an Ogre etc. This should impede him as well. (personally I like to encourage my players to get pack animals and guards - that's what their for)
I propose a simple adherance to the current system -
If the Character is bearing a medium Load -1 on attacks and damage (or just one depending on what system of Might is adopted) a heavy load is -2 on attacks and Damage rolls.

hmm more thoughts on these later

 

[Thondor]

New edited rules

They certainly more clear. I'll examine the others when I have more time but as for

Capacity

I really like these modified rules. Brilliant. Not sure I'd completely drop the Armour and weapons but I understand why you'd make that call, I think at least items beyond +5 (ie. they have other enhancements and the +5) Intelligent weapons and armours and Artifact's should take capacity to wield.

The one other thing I would add -- Should a magic item that increases Charisma also bring up your capacity. I don't really think it should. If you do allow this keep in mind that they will be distinctly more potent.

 

[Exen Trik]

Movement:
Part of my thoughts on this is that rationally someone with a really high might score in a Breastplate should be able to move as well or almost as well as a someone with low might in a Chain Shirt.

I understand where you're coming from with this, but Might isn't meant to represent weight at all, or even encumbrance. It represents the ability to fight effectively with what you wield, combining the ability to carry equipment while reacting quickly, swinging accurately, maintaining balance, etc. Consider how strange it would be to draw a sword or shield - that you were already carrying on you - and suddenly be suffering a penalty to speed.

Now, on the other hand, I could imagine carrying a heavy load may give you a Might penalty, but you would get into issues where heavy armor penalizes your Might twice, once for being armor and once for being heavy. You could go and subtract the weight or somesuch, but it still ends up more trouble than it's worth, and carrying gear at low levels becomes a pain. Keeping Might and weight completely separate is the way to go.

Another thought Fatigue -
Maybe the penalty to exceeding your might score sould not occur immediately but rather after several rounds of combat -- more complicated yes. Is it worth the effort?

Nope. Well, if you are really into the grim and gritty style of gaming maybe.

But if you really wanted to, you could have continuous rounds of combat (each round past your Con+3?) have a Might penalty, resulting in the usual attack penalty if it exceeds your max. If you really wanted to expand the role of the equipment limits, the best way would be through some feats that let you use the points differently instead of hammering existing rules into it.

The one other thing I would add -- Should a magic item that increases Charisma also bring up your capacity. I don't really think it should. If you do allow this keep in mind that they will be distinctly more potent.

Hmm hadn't thought of that. I don't see the harm really, I'd allow it. I can't see denying Str or Int from effecting the other eq limits either.

 

[Thondor]

The point is that a Charisma incresing Item will essentially be a free item,(taking up no capacity) that possibly allows you to gain even more magic items. While str increasing and int increasing items will improve Might and Readyness they take up space as magic items. Cha items don't.

I would also alter your Poise rules slightly:
You do not indicate what ranged weapons readiness are.

I would hesitate to demand a readyness of 5 in order that you can draw a bow and it's projectile as a free action. Under standard rules arrows and bolts are drawn as part of the attack action. Thus requiring an extra 2 points for the bow/crossbow seems prohibitive. (you don't mention sling bullets either)

Increase the weights in your miselanious items section so that it coresponds closer to the weights of weapons.

Need rules for shields

The container rules seem . .. off. Don't have any brilliant suggestions at this point.

Set a weapon to be drawn as part of move action (requires +1 bab)
1: Light weapon
2: One-Handed melee weapon, One handed ranged ie. javelin, dart, sling, dagger
3: Two-Handed melee weapon, Two handed ranged weapon ie. Bow, crossbow, thrown spear etc.

Ready ammo
1: Shruikens, Darts
2: Quivers of Arrows or Bolts

Have an item to be accessed as a free action (or used as part of another action)
1: Under one pound Two pounds and under
2: Between one and four pounds Between 2 and 5
3: Over four pounds. Over 5 pounds
(Scales with size, as per carrying capacity (large x2, small 3/4, etc))
(may need new item categories of some sort)

Shields
1 Light Shield, buckler
2 Heavy shield
3 Tower shield

Access a container as a free action (selecting an item within is a move action)
1: Pouch
2: Backpack, quiver
3: Sack
(Need ideas on how much each can hold, depends on item setup...)

 

[Exen Trik]

The point is that a Charisma incresing Item will essentially be a free item,(taking up no capacity) that possibly allows you to gain even more magic items. While str increasing and int increasing items will improve Might and Readyness they take up space as magic items. Cha items don't.

I understand what you mean, but the way I see it that is just a special property of the magic item. It would be different if there was a way to stack a bunch of charisma bonuses but that isn't how it works, you get a maximum of +3 for a non epic game. That said, you can rule out the benefit of enhancement bonuses to equipment limits, and that would be fine too. Maybe I'll just go with that as the basic rule

I would also alter your Poise rules slightly:

And I would alter them heavily. I've been playing around with a rewrite, but haven't come up with anything worthwhile yet. Needs some more brainstorming on how to deal with containers would be good, I'm just kinda of eyeballing it at this point.

I will try to put up a new update tonight, and address the rest of the stuff you brought up.

Oh and thanks for the feedback.