log in or register to remove this ad

 

D&D General New Summary and Release Date for 'Dragons of Deceit'

There's a new Amazon Kindle page for Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman's new Dragonlance novel, Dragons of Deceit with a release date of August 9, 2022.

There has been an older Amazon page for the book for a while, with a now-expired release date of July 2021. The existence of the new trilogy from the Dragonlance Chronicles authors was revealed in 2020 when they initiated a lawsuit against WotC for breach of contract.

dragonlance.jpg


The book description reads as follows (typos are on the actual Kindle page):


The first new Dragonlance novel from Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman in over a decade, and featuring fan-favorite characters from the iconic first two trilogies, Dragonlance Chronicles and Dragonlance Legends--books that brought a generation of readers into the fantasy fold.

Destina Rosethorn--as her name implies--believes herself to be very much a favored child of destiny. But when her father dis in the War of the Lance, her carefully-constructed world comes crashing down. Not only does she lost her beloved father, but the legacy he has left her: a wealthy fiance, and rule over the family lands and castle. With nothing left in the world to support her but wits and determination, she hatches a bold plan: to secure the Device of Time Journeying she read about in one of her father's books and prevent her father's death.

The last known holder of the Device was one of the Heroes of the Lance: the free-spirited kender, Tasselhoff Burrfoot. BUt when Destina arrives in Solace--home not only to Tas, but to fellow heroes Caramon and Tika Majere--she sets into motion a chain of events more deadly than she had ever anticipated: one that could change not only her personal history, but the fate of the entire world, allowing a previously-defeated evil to once again gain ascendancy.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

log in or register to remove this ad

Yeah, Dragonlance's true strength came from how personal interactions played out against a grand backdrop of war. It's about sweeping battles, good vs. evil, romance, dragons, scheming magical orders, code-bound knights. Dragonlance is Solace and the Inn of the Last Home, the Shoikan Grove, Thorbardin. It's Takhisis, Lord Soth, Fistandantilus, and other dangerous enemies. It's heroes like Flint, Laurana, and Huma.

It can be about new adventurers that find themselves becoming legends like those that came before. All the ugly tropes it had in the past can be shed without compromising what makes Dragonlance so special.

You could do a modern take on Dragonlance with all the new races and classes. To me the draw of Dragonlance has always been the sense of discovery that’s at the forefront of the War of the Lance. It’s almost like a setting somewhere in between Dark Sun (full on post-apocalyptic) and Forgotten Realms (standard D&D fantasy). A less drastic version of Dark Sun. That’s what I’ve considered the best part of Dragonlance.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

It can be about new adventurers that find themselves becoming legends like those that came before. All the ugly tropes it had in the past can be shed without compromising what makes Dragonlance so special.

Maybe, but I think the authors may have a big problem, no matter how they write the books or update the setting to try and remove the problematic stuff, the whitewashing, and the outright racist bits. If they write the new trilogy to sound and feel like the two old trilogies they are supposed to be a direct follow-up for, people will rightly point out how horrible that sounds, or if they write them with a modern sense of inclusiveness, people will go back to read the older books and be turned off by that old way of thinking and ignorance. The world needs a reboot from the ground up and if, say those two original trilogies are all that stay canon, along with the new trilogy, they should be rewritten and cleaned up too.
 


Dausuul

Legend
Say those two original trilogies are all that stay canon, along with the new trilogy, they should be rewritten and cleaned up too.
I agree, but I don't think the cleanup of the original trilogies is all that heavy a lift. Though I haven't read them in a long time, so there might be stuff I've forgotten.

Obviously, the gully dwarves are the big issue here, and revamping them would be a non-trivial exercise. You can't just get rid of them; Raistlin's relationship with Bupu is a vital part of his character, showing the spark of compassion that keeps him from being utterly unredeemable. At the same time, if you quit playing them for laughs and show how hard their lot really is, you risk making the other characters look callous and cruel when they don't share Raistlin's empathy.

So, that's a delicate and difficult task. But it isn't a large task. In terms of raw word count, gully dwarves don't take up a big fraction of the books. Raistlin's treatment of Crysania is textbook abusive-boyfriend behavior; but Raistlin is by that point avowedly evil, he's committing hideous crimes on a regular basis, and he is outright stated to be manipulating Crysania in the service of his insane ambition. It's not like theirs is presented as a healthy loving relationship.

I feel like the rest could be handled with minor edits, not much different from routine copy editing. (Which, frankly, the original trilogies could also use.)
 

I agree with @Dausuul - it's not that difficult to make Dragonlance work with modern sensibilities. When you think about the parts that really mattered in the first two trilogies, it's not the horrible stuff.

Maybe, but I think the authors may have a big problem, no matter how they write the books or update the setting to try and remove the problematic stuff, the whitewashing, and the outright racist bits. If they write the new trilogy to sound and feel like the two old trilogies they are supposed to be a direct follow-up for, people will rightly point out how horrible that sounds, or if they write them with a modern sense of inclusiveness, people will go back to read the older books and be turned off by that old way of thinking and ignorance. The world needs a reboot from the ground up and if, say those two original trilogies are all that stay canon, along with the new trilogy, they should be rewritten and cleaned up too.
 

I agree, but I don't think the cleanup of the original trilogies is all that heavy a lift. Though I haven't read them in a long time, so there might be stuff I've forgotten.

Obviously, the gully dwarves are the big issue here, and revamping them would be a non-trivial exercise. You can't just get rid of them; Raistlin's relationship with Bupu is a vital part of his character, showing the spark of compassion that keeps him from being utterly unredeemable. At the same time, if you quit playing them for laughs and show how hard their lot really is, you risk making the other characters look callous and cruel when they don't share Raistlin's empathy.

So, that's a delicate and difficult task. But it isn't a large task. In terms of raw word count, gully dwarves don't take up a big fraction of the books. Raistlin's treatment of Crysania is textbook abusive-boyfriend behavior; but Raistlin is by that point avowedly evil, he's committing hideous crimes on a regular basis, and he is outright stated to be manipulating Crysania in the service of his insane ambition. It's not like theirs is presented as a healthy loving relationship.

I feel like the rest could be handled with minor edits, not much different from routine copy editing. (Which, frankly, the original trilogies could also use.)

I'm fine with them being exposes as callous and uncaring if that is what there actions and behavior make them to be.
 

Dausuul

Legend
I'm fine with them being exposes as callous and uncaring if that is what there actions and behavior make them to be.
Well, yeah, but generally those aren't attributes you want in characters who are being presented as the heroes. (There are novels that deliberately showcase such "heroes," but Dragonlance ain't one of them.) So, their actions and behavior should be brought in line with the intended portrayal.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Well, yeah, but generally those aren't attributes you want in characters who are being presented as the heroes. (There are novels that deliberately showcase such "heroes," but Dragonlance ain't one of them.) So, their actions and behavior should be brought in line with the intended portrayal.
And it’s odd behavior, from them.
 

The strategy could to give an ambiguous end. For example the apocalyptic Krynn where Raitslin was the only god still remains, but it is a "domain" within the Abyss, like a far cousin of Ravenloft. They are a "perfect future" where almost everybody is happy, but this isn't totally real, but a "delight domain" in the afterlife, and then all the population are "petitioners". Or when a new timeline is created by the time-travelers and later "fixed" by others, really it is not "rewritten" but become a domain within the dream land, something like the original letters covered by a correction fluid. I guess here WotC only should open the door and allow the own players to create their own ideas to know what works better and can be accepted by the rest of the fandom.

Or Raitslin the god from the apocalyptic future finds a loophole for the repopulation of their sphere, a planar gate toward Kalidnay (the dark domain and the original from Athas), and lots of refugees are wellcome. And the defiler magic would work a little different. The life in the area would be damaged by the recovery would be faster, only this "returned" life would be "tainted", toxic for the no-necrotouched beings (only carrion-eater animals and werebeasts are (almost) immune). The god Raitslin also would allow chronomancers to use the Krynn-sphere like a hidding room if they help to the rebuilding.

Or lord Sorth in the afterlife search his wife and son, and the deities demand a special favor, and now lord Sorth is in crossfire between two factions, the god Raitslin and the "only god" the king-priest of Istar (Beldinas Pilofiro), fighting each other to save their own timeline using others as peripheral war (in one where Krynn is invaded by the Vodoni empire). The title would be "Lord Soth: undead (again) and furious".

Or a Krynn ruled by the seekers, and order of mystics with psionic powers. The truth is this is an artificial demiplane created by high-technology, by the fraals, like a hidding room or bunker within the space-time continium who face other alien faction with time-travel tech. the Oads, from the module "Where Chaos reigns"

* I don't like that ridiculous manicheism about a cosmic balance between good and evil. The true cosmic harmony is when people obey the Natural Law. "Sorry, your bride and family were eaten by those zombies with superpowers but it is a necessary sacrifice to restore the balance because the people from the little poney valley are too happy and purehearted".
 
Last edited:

Urriak Uruk

Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
Well, I won't comment on the actual synopsis, as its implementation can range from as awful as The Cursed Child to as good as Avengers: Endgame. Time travel itself is not inherently negative, it can be written well or not.

But I am absolutely pro-reboot. I understand folks want to move the story forward, but Dragonlance isn't exactly Star Wars; its got its fair share of fans, but most of them are those who read the original books when they were first being released. The property has largely fallen off collective consciousness, and those who ARE familiar with it remember the War of the Lance, and not much else.

And yes, stuff like Gully Dwarves absolutely needs to be scrubbed out of the setting. So I have no problem with the "Star Trek Film Reboot" style where time-travel creates an alternate Krynn where the most problematic issues are stripped out, and we get to redo the most iconic Dragonlance material for 5E.
 


I think this Nerd Immersion interview was posted yesterday. This is the clip where Tracy Hickman speaks about the new novels.
He says an announcement of some sort is coming in the next few weeks and that the first novel should be released “Fall next year.” So a little later than this Kindle Page suggested.
 

I just read the article in Dragon magazine #102 on the Gully Dwarves, and wow, I had forgotten just how problematic they were. But I think that, rather than getting rid of them entirely, they could build them back up as dwarves that were forced to survive in harsh conditions post-Cataclysm, rather than the horrific miscegenation ideas that they previously embodied. Include their animistic belief system, and remove the whole "dirty, dumb, deceptive, and disease-ridden" schtick and I think it could work.

And yes, stuff like Gully Dwarves absolutely needs to be scrubbed out of the setting. So I have no problem with the "Star Trek Film Reboot" style where time-travel creates an alternate Krynn where the most problematic issues are stripped out, and we get to redo the most iconic Dragonlance material for 5E.
 

I don't care about the time travel / reboot part at all....do it or not. But the names and the premise aren't exactly inspiring me. I mean, the MCU changes the timeline over and over......no reason fantasy can't do the same (if done well).

And a lot of people both comic fans and non-comic fans alike despise the inclusion of time travel retcons as well, particularly in the hamfisted and poorly written way both the MCU and the comics both handled it. Comic fans have long complained about characters not staying dead and utter lack of continuity with comics, and the MCU's handling of the multiverse and time travel thus far has been...bad. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the emotional ride that was the whole Infinity Saga, but it is not without its flaws an the half-baked time travel is definitely one of the weakest parts of it.

I guess I could someday write the Dragonlance I want to see.

After my new set of classes and setting book, and after I finish my TTRPG….

Would that we could. Were I handed the keys to the kingdom the first thing I would do would be to make sure Takhisis remains dead and buried and shift the story to newer times. I'd also tell a story that focuses less on more continuous wars and more the world and characters in it recovering from the non-stop wars they've had. Honestly the biggest pet peeve I have with all of these different fantasy settings is that it is absurd how quickly everyone and everything just "bounces back" from multiple world altering events like it's nothing and the setting itself has had literally like 5 world wars, TWO world changing disasters, and TWO generations of shorter lived races who basically have no clue who the heck these gods are anyway...all within the last 150 years. That would cause untold amounts of pain and suffering and while I get that wars are needed for tension and the setting I think the world needs a bit of a breather before a build up to the next war. Obviously the books should build up to that, but for petes sake give us a bit of a time skip or some sort of realistic sense of time/recovery.

You could do a modern take on Dragonlance with all the new races and classes. To me the draw of Dragonlance has always been the sense of discovery that’s at the forefront of the War of the Lance. It’s almost like a setting somewhere in between Dark Sun (full on post-apocalyptic) and Forgotten Realms (standard D&D fantasy). A less drastic version of Dark Sun. That’s what I’ve considered the best part of Dragonlance.

The thing is, Age of Mortals arguably already has a sort of "Dark Sun light" vibe, which is perhaps why it might not be popular with some. It's a war-torn era where (from the mortal perspective) the gods have abandoned them...again, the heavens themselves have shifted and changed, magic is failing, and the lands are being torn apart and ravaged by giant dragons that are far too large to deal with conventionally. If that doesn't feel sort of borderline apocalyptic I don't know what does. I say it's "light" though simply because it never truly crosses the line into full apocalypse. The few issues I do have with the books themselves for this time period is that they do at times tend to be not the best written in quality, many of the more interesting characters are the dragons or gods themselves rather than some of the mortals, and some of the characters [cough Dhamon Grimwulf cough] are a bit... early 2000's edgy, which can feel a bit dated now?

In regards to a "modern" take in terms of classes and races, for my personal games I tend to run the game using any available races and just change the fluff. I make half-orcs half ogres, I use tiefling stats for Irda/high born ogres, I use Goliath for Tarmak tribes, I allow nomadic humans to be either traditional humans or half-orcs, and other options and so forth. I classify all magic users as either primal magic (sorcerers, bards, etc.) or focused magic (wizards, clerics, etc.). The terms aren't cannon sure, but the idea in the setting is certainly there for there being a difference between sorcerers and wizards and mystics and clerics, respectively. I also have a slew of alternative racials for halfings and dragonborn for kender and draconians and the like, and while I don't ever "ban" an option I do make it clear there are roleplaying implications for being something like a draconian with a breath weapon (i.e. they are "weird" or "abnormal" for their race. Player characters are supposed to be that way anyway.

It works fairly well and doesn't use require very much bending or even breaking of any of the cannon lore. The 5th edition books even help supplement the setting indirectly too. The ronoun rules that were in the DMG and expanded upon by the Ravnica book are REALLY nice for the knight orders, wizards, cleric and sorcerer orders, and the Piety system from Theros is AMAZING for the setting, at least as far as how I tend to handle the gods in Dragonlance as opposed to another setting like Fae'Run. The point is it works better than most want to admit.

Do that if you want a hugely divided Dragonlance Fandom, otherwise just create a new setting for something like that.

I'd argue the Age of Mortals did that already, if any of the discourse online is any indication.

Yeah, Dragonlance's true strength came from how personal interactions played out against a grand backdrop of war. It's about sweeping battles, good vs. evil, romance, dragons, scheming magical orders, code-bound knights. Dragonlance is Solace and the Inn of the Last Home, the Shoikan Grove, Thorbardin. It's Takhisis, Lord Soth, Fistandantilus, and other dangerous enemies. It's heroes like Flint, Laurana, and Huma.

It can be about new adventurers that find themselves becoming legends like those that came before. All the ugly tropes it had in the past can be shed without compromising what makes Dragonlance so special.

I agree with this 100%. A good Dragonlance tale is a classic hero's journey in format. Ideally they should come from if not humble origins, though I know mercs are often common. But that same reasoning is also part of the reason why I grow so annoyed at people so attached to the original trilogy is I feel like it largely defeats the exact premise of creating characters and telling your own stories. The War of the Lance is just objectively the worst time to tell stories in due to being so detailed and fleshed out it's akin to running a Middle Earth game during the events of Lord of the Rings. Sure you can...but why? It'll just make your characters feel like they are second fiddle, or worse yet you'll either feel railroaded to follow the books: or deviate so far from them that using the time period becomes pointless. I mean why wouldn't your characters be involved in a war that literally spans the entire continent and has the fate of the world literally rest on its outcome? Especially for those who are calling for a remake of the game modules because arguably Tyranny of Dragons is that remake. We need new material to work with, not continuing to dwell in the past.
 


If they were to put out a Dragonlance module and/or setting, I'd want to see a new War of the Lance, because yeah, just re-doing the original War of the Lance is retelling a story we know very well, not to mention the difficulties in putting PCs into a battle that already has its stars. You run into the same trouble Middle-Earth properties.

I also can't see Wizards doing another module that ends in a fight with Tiamat; were it up to me, I'd have the big bad be Lord Soth.

The War of the Lance is just objectively the worst time to tell stories in due to being so detailed and fleshed out it's akin to running a Middle Earth game during the events of Lord of the Rings. Sure you can...but why? It'll just make your characters feel like they are second fiddle, or worse yet you'll either feel railroaded to follow the books: or deviate so far from them that using the time period becomes pointless. I mean why wouldn't your characters be involved in a war that literally spans the entire continent and has the fate of the world literally rest on its outcome? Especially for those who are calling for a remake of the game modules because arguably Tyranny of Dragons is that remake. We need new material to work with, not continuing to dwell in the past.
 

I've played Star Wars D6 RPG set during the rebellion. There is plenty of room for "meanwhile, in another part of the galaxy".

Although I think there is room to redo the War of the Lance as a modern adventure path. Take away the pregen characters, let the novels be forgotten, and remind DMs that how things turn out is up to the players.

Except they've already done this. It's called Tyranny of Dragons and has been released twice already in 5e. Change the names and colors of a couple dragons and places and you have your campaign. Ironically ToD is even often subjected to the same criticisms the old Dragonlance trilogy of modules often gets, being considered by some to be far too linear or railroad-y.

It is a waste of design space and effort to do otherwise when we are now living in a 5-8 book per year world now, especially when it's usually only 3 or 4 books max are adventure modules now.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
Except they've already done this. It's called Tyranny of Dragons and has been released twice already in 5e. Change the names and colors of a couple dragons and places and you have your campaign. Ironically ToD is even often subjected to the same criticisms the old Dragonlance trilogy of modules often gets, being considered by some to be far too linear or railroad-y.

It is a waste of design space and effort to do otherwise when we are now living in a 5-8 book per year world now, especially when it's usually only 3 or 4 books max are adventure modules now.
Tyranny of Dragons was certainly heavily inspired by Dragonlance, but it isn't a retelling or reimagining of the same story. It has some similar story elements, but isn't as close to the War of the Lance storyline as you suggest.

Would a hardcover reimagining of the actual Dragonlance modules be worth doing, as conceptually it is similar to the existing Tyranny of Dragons? Eh, it depends on the execution for me. If it's done well, I'd love to see it, even though we've already had Takhisis/Tiamat try to invade the Forgotten Realms.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Except they've already done this. It's called Tyranny of Dragons and has been released twice already in 5e. Change the names and colors of a couple dragons and places and you have your campaign. Ironically ToD is even often subjected to the same criticisms the old Dragonlance trilogy of modules often gets, being considered by some to be far too linear or railroad-y.

It is a waste of design space and effort to do otherwise when we are now living in a 5-8 book per year world now, especially when it's usually only 3 or 4 books max are adventure modules now.
Tyranny of Dragons is a nearly 8 year old book (in print longer than 3E), that has an over two year old remastered special edition combining both parts. It's already a classic in it's own right, and I could see "combine this new book with the classic Tyranny of Dragons!" as a selling point rather than a limiting factor.
 

My hope is they will use this to correct the timeline to what Tasslehoff first sees when he travels to the future using the Device of Time Journeying in the War of Souls trilogy. Basically the future that would have occurred had Tahkisis never stolen the world at the culmination of the Chaos War.

Logged in here to say that. Seems like the logical thing to do, from any brand management point of view. If WotC wants to bring Dragonlance back in any meaningful capacity, then they need to do just this: De-convolute the timeline in a way that casual fans can understand, as well.

I'm one of those who loved Dragonlance SAGA, and I appreciated the mid-2000s DL 3e run; but those versions of the setting, they're written for people who had been fans of the setting long enough to remember and understand the transitions from the older novels to the then-status-quo. That's not a given for new audiences, and so the core concept has to be considerably simpler. (Test: What's the name of Raistlin's daughter's mother? ;) )

- And because, rpg relaunch or not, WotC wants to be able to license the title, and to disengage it from past criticism, they are going to strive for the ending that is as uncontroversial as possible - and that's a happy one that allows them to celebrate the story Disney-style. Market this with Weis and Hickman, give them and their iconic characters a celebratory send-off. ...And then, possibly even continue the story with other writers, after a multi-generational time-jump, perhaps.

It's more likely they want to "round out" the brand, though: Bring the fans together over something that everyone can appreciate, then return to the older material in a new form. - DL, as a TV show, perhaps too complicated. But as a video game, in the style of Baldur's Gate, or other titles, it might make much sense - especially with several possible endings being available canonically already.
 

The reboot of Dragonlance isn't easy is the changes are too radical. WotC's team has got some ideas, Hasbro's CEOs others, and the fandom lots of different suggestions. Teorically it should be "you buy the box with the pieces, and after you create as you want". There is a potential conflict between surprise and continuity. For example a player could cause intentionally an accident to kill an nPC because he read the wiki the spoiler about a future betray.

I would like to know an official answer by WotC about the idea of the multiverse because this allows an opened door for your own ideas. For example a female elf from Sithicus(Ravenloft) is killed by a strange power, and like those webcomics about reincarnations, she wakes up within other body, this case Kitiara, Caramon and Raitslin's big sister and Tanis' former lover. Really she is not in the original timeline, but a "dream-realm" that has become "real" by the will of a group of chronomancers creating their own demiplane. And she meets potential allies, a kender, a gully and a female tomboy half-ogre whose behavior isn't like the told by the tropes (because they are "isekai", people from other worlds).

And we have to know the stance/position of the tower of the high sorcery about the no-wizard arcane spellcasters: sorcerers and warlocks.

Other idea is a "Krynn-Nexus" an alternate timeline suffering the visits and failed tries of conquest by other "sliders", one of them survivors from the apocalypse caused by the deity Raitslin, or refugess escaping from the king-priest teocratic distopy. A nice place if you want adventures with chronomancers. This "Krynn-sphere" has got secret planar-gates to special domains or pocket universes created as secondary effects when some time paradoxes were fixed.

The cover of the book "Wild Elves" inspires my a mash-up version mixing Dragonlance and Dark Sun.
 

Visit Our Sponsor

Level Up!

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top