New tidbit about spells and hit points.

[Visceris]

I fail to see the danger involved in sitting around a table eating Cheetos, while rolling dice and pretending to be elves. Do you mean death by cardiac arrest, perhaps?

Are you sure you are a gamer? Seriously, think in your character's perspective. Sheesh.

Prove it.

I did. That is my proof for me. If that is not good enough for you then there is no point in even discussing this with you. Have fun playing Scrabble.

 

[hong]

Are you sure you are a gamer? Seriously, think in your character's perspective. Sheesh.

Ah, right. From my character's perspective, no way do they want a 5% chance of dying each time they get hit for some arbitrary number of hit points. Is that better?

I did. That is my proof for me.

If journals could only adopt this new, more permissive modern-day interpretation of the word "proof", a lot of problems could be solved.

If that is not good enough for you then there is no point in even discussing this with you. Have fun playing Scrabble.

You say this like it's a negative thing.

 

[Gentlegamer]

It is the struggle that makes the game fun, and the risk of failure, of death, and over coming that risk is what makes the game worth playing. Remove that then you might as well be playing Monoploy or Scrabble.

Or Candyland.

 

[Visceris]

Or Candyland.

Yeah, Candyland is probably more in the range of WotC's new target audience with 4e as they are trying to cater to "young gamers" according to one of their designers.

 

[WhatGravitas]

It is the struggle that makes the game fun, and the risk of failure, of death, and over coming that risk is what makes the game worth playing.

Partially, yes. But you really put emphasis on the "risk of death"-part and try to hit other stuff with the badwrongfun-club.

And what's about "risk of failure". While I don't think that will ever happen (due to the mention of -10 death in the first post of the thread), let's assume the PCs are immune against damage and death. And they have to reach a certain place in a certain distance to avoid the activation of the Artefact Of Doom (TM) and the way to that place is filled with monsters, stuff. And they have to reach it in a certain time. There is still risk of failure, the fate of the world (or whatever is crucial for your plot).

Now, that won't affect the PCs directly, but the consequences of failure will change many things. And the struggle to avoid that, can surely be equally interesting.

There should be more than more way to make the game and the struggles fun, than only by the risk of death.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Victim]

If there is a chance for the character, PC or NPC, to die on one hit then let it have that chance. In any fight there is a slim chance there is going to be an insta-kill. Victim, just how many fights have you, yourself have been in anyway?

None. How many fights have you been in that featured a 20th level fighter? I doubt you've fought someone who can wade through lava and punch through a castle wall with his fist. I haven't seen any evidence of legendary death machines either. So how is DnD modeling real fights? Besides, any blow can be lethal if you deal with 1st level guys.

If any blow can be instantly lethal, then that argues against a 50 HP massive damage threshold anyway.

 

[Visceris]

There should be more than more way to make the game and the struggles fun, than only by the risk of death.

I agree, but that does not mean we should remove it as well.

 

[hong]

Or Candyland.

It's not a manly pursuit until you risk lead poisoning from the minis!

 

[hong]

I agree, but that does not mean we should remove it as well.

... assuming, of course, they were removing it in the first place.

 

[Visceris]

None. How many fights have you been in that featured a 20th level fighter? I doubt you've fought someone who can wade through lava and punch through a castle wall with his fist. I haven't seen any evidence of legendary death machines either. So how is DnD modeling real fights? Besides, any blow can be lethal if you deal with 1st level guys.

If any blow can be instantly lethal, then that argues against a 50 HP massive damage threshold anyway.

That is why in my game the Massive Damage Threshold is much much lower. In my game the MDT is derived from d20 Modern, equal to the Character's Constitution Score, however the PCs can take feats to increase that value if they so wish it. Also I use Monte Cook's rule on Death and Dying from Arcana Evolved.