D&D 5E New Vecna Battle (Let's Get Ready to RUMBLE!!!) - CONCLUDED

[DND_Reborn]

I think that's a commonly allowed though, as the grapple is just a replacement for an attack. That said, I have seen different DMs rule it different ways.

I did a quick look and only found an SA saying you can't, so I'll go with that from now on.

Personally, in my own games I do allow it, so that might be why I thought it was more RAW...

 

[Stalker0]

Alright, well if Ezabard is back in the game, he's bringing the pain!

Ezabard will move to duck behind the alter (unless I can see Vecna I am assuming he is probably to the east somewhere because I believe we did see him teleport before), if I need to go prone to really and try and restrict line of sight I will, but the goal is to prevent vecna from having line of sight on me.

The symbol will go off, but regardless of pass or fail I will still be able to do this, because I'm not targeting anyone.

EZABARD CASTS METEOR SWARM!!!!

With my sculpt spell none of my allies or I will be harmed. My goal is to cover as much of this place as I can, as I get 4 x 40 foot radius chunks. If you think I need to get more precise than that let me know, my general goal is to hit to the main dark area and the shadows with the first one, and then with the other 3 I'm going to hit the back places that vecna could have teleported to (aka if its clearly wide open where I know he's not I don't care about those spots). If that's not enough I'll need the the full map and I can pick from there.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Alright, well if Ezabard is back in the game, he's bringing the pain!

LOL hold your horses!

 

[Stalker0]

Well assuming I do get to do this, I'll also note that I will leave teh lady on the alter alone. Also since it can affect unattended objects I am going to rip into that tower with the blast if I'm able to!

 

[DND_Reborn]

The symbol will go off, but regardless of pass or fail I will still be able to do this, because I'm not targeting anyone.

Hmm... I don't know if I'm buying this one... I think this is where RAW is definitely in conflict with RAI:

Hopelessness
Each target must make a Charisma saving throw. On a failed save, the target is overwhelmed with despair for 1 minute. During this time, it can't attack or target any creature with harmful abilities, spells, or other magical effects.

While meteor swarm doesn't "target" creatures, it is definitely harmful and affecting them.

As a DM, I would most definitely NOT allow this at my own table--nor could you cast fireball or any other harmful spells with the intent to "fight back" while under the effects of this symbol.

What are other peoples' thoughts???

EDIT: I'll add that since the creatures in the AoE have to make saving throws, RAI they are targets IMO...

 

[Stalker0]

EDIT: I'll add that since the creatures in the AoE have to make saving throws, RAI they are targets IMO...

Noting that if you use the interpretation that I actually have to "target" enemies, that means I also have to have line of sight on them. That means I couldn't fireball someone who is invisible....which I don't think is the intent. Area effects get to do lots of things targeted spells do not.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I've just review each round and I think it would be easiest to jump back to Pyre's turn of the previous round. Ezabard will be alive and acting after Pyre as normal.

On 4.2.20

• Using the same rolls, but with disadvantage instead of advantage, Ezabard is never hit, so regains 9 HP and 2 STR.
• Selossen is still missed.
• Pyre was hit with a crit, but the second roll still hit (so no crit). This means Pyre gains 4 HP, but still suffers the 4 STR loss (since this wasn't doubled for the crit).

On 4.4.20

• Using the same rolls, but with disadvantage instead of advantage, Ezabard still hit twice and loses 6 STR, so no change.
• Pyre is still missed, so no change there, either.

With Ezabard not dying, the shadows would still be surrounding him. Luckily, with the screen shots, I can easily put people back, etc.

NOTE: after Pyre's turn, nothing stops Ezabard from still meteor swarming the area, without crossing the symbol spell...

 

[Stalker0]

NOTE: after Pyre's turn, nothing stops Ezabard from still meteor swarming the area, without crossing the symbol spell...

Other than a vecna I am sure is around somewhere ready to counterspell me the second I do!

 

[DND_Reborn]

Noting that if you use the interpretation that I actually have to "target" enemies, that means I also have to have line of sight on them. That means I couldn't fireball someone who is invisible....which I don't think is the intent. Area effects get to do lots of things targeted spells do not.

I agree, but the symbol of hopelessness means you cannot use harmful abilities, spells, etc. That is the important aspect of the spell. You are under complete despair--not fighting back. You can help your allies and yourself, but that's it IMO.

I'm not saying AoE spells are "targeting" in general.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Other than a vecna I am sure is around somewhere ready to counterspell me the second I do!

LOL what makes you think he wouldn't be otherwise?? FWIW, at least vs. a 9th-level spell, your odds are better than not you'll get the spell off.