D&D 5E New Vecna Battle (Let's Get Ready to RUMBLE!!!) - CONCLUDED

[Stalker0]

LOL what makes you think he wouldn't be otherwise?? FWIW, at least vs. a 9th-level spell, your odds are better than not you'll get the spell off.

Well I'm hoping that by ducking under that altar I could break line of sight, though if I'm now surrounded by shadows that is going to be more of a problem.

 

[Stalker0]

I agree, but the symbol of hopelessness means you cannot use harmful abilities, spells, etc.

It doesn't say that though, it specifically says "target creatures". If it had said, "you cannot use harmful spells"....than completely agree, I am 100% shut down in the offense. But it adds in the target creatures part

 

[DND_Reborn]

Well, let's see what the others have to say about it all...

I am kind of annoyed the sunblade thing wasn't brought up before, but more so that I actually read the sunblade and missed it myself. Such an important point should have been front and center IMO.

 

[DorkForge]

For what it's worth I wouldn't allow it, it goes against the purpose of the effect and IIRC RAW (somewhere) those in an AOE count as targeted by that spell

 

[DND_Reborn]

It doesn't say that though, it specifically says "target creatures". If it had said, "you cannot use harmful spells"....than completely agree, I am 100% shut down in the offense. But it adds in the target creatures part

So, would you say fireballing or using meteor swarm to harm creatures isn't "attacking" them, either?

To be clear, I KNOW what the RAW says, I just think this is in conflict with the intent of the spell--which is that you cannot harm others while under the spell. This is a case where the language use conflicts between RAW and RAI.

 

[DragonBelow]

I agree with @DND_Reborn on the hopelessness issue. You're using it to harm enemies, hence it's an attack.

 

[Stalker0]

So, would you say fireballing or using meteor swarm to harm creatures isn't "attacking" them, either?

Correct. Attacks are specific things called out in the rules, they have attack rolls as an example.

I mean if we are playing up the hopelessness flavor as the reason I can't, I can still cast spells that help my allies kill the bad guy....so apparently, I am not completely given in to despair. If the spell had just turned off spellcasting entirely that would make sense to me, but it doesn't go that blanket a statement.

 

[Stalker0]

Also since we have used Sage Advice rulings before, just noting this one about magic missile:

A tweet from JC:
"Dealing damage doesn't make something an attack. See "Making an Attack" (PH, 194) for what the rules consider to be an attack."

AND

"Magic missile isn't an attack."

 

[DND_Reborn]

Also since we have used Sage Advice rulings before, just noting this one about magic missile:

And here's one about dragon's breath:

Seems to imply that creatures in AoE are "targets", even if not "targeted".

Also:

When you choose a point in space for an AoE spell, that point becomes a "target" for the spell (of course, it is not a creature... hmm...).

So, my vote is definitely no to any AoE spell (or feature or magical effects) that is harmful.

This would also work against Vecna's Flight of the Damned IMO. It doesn't target creatures, but is a harmful magical effect.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I agree that it's not an attack, but it IS "target(ing) a creature with harmful... spells".

You can fireball an invisible creature because you can target an invisible creature in the area of a fireball.

I hate retconning, and we've done it twice! (I forgive us, because this being a "test", we are trying harder than I think it normally "matters" in a "real" game to get it "right").

... But it goes to show that games of this high level are complicated. I mean, look at how many mistakes we've made, and I would think that we count as "very good" at this game!