Night Hag-- Save or die?

[Asmor]

Had an issue tonight... The Night Hag has an ability which dazes someone and, if they fail their save, then knocks them unconscious with no save to wake up, and no other method given to wake the character up.

In other words, it's basically a save or die (specifically, save or fall unconscious indefinitely). After talking it over, the DM let me make a heal check to revive the dude who'd failed his save, but it just seems strange that an effect like this exists with no actual method of mitigation.

Did we miss something?

 

[Dalzig]

When weird questions like this pop up, always check the Updates. The night hag was fixed in the latest batch.

 

[Nytmare]

It's far from official, but I know that the Oni (the only other creature in the MM with an unconscious (no save) effect) was errata'd to unconcious (save ends).

They might have missed it in the first round of erratas.

[EDIT - Or maybe they even fixed it in the last round!]

 

[Kel]

It seems to me that if you suffer from an "unconscious (no save)" effect, it just means you fall unconscious, and you can be awoken by any normal means for waking unconscious people (i.e., one of your friends has to shake you or throw water on your face or something). That doesn't seem THAT bad, unless you're the last man standing.

 

[Nytmare]

It seems to me that if you suffer from an "unconscious (no save)" effect, it just means you fall unconscious, and you can be awoken by any normal means for waking unconscious people (i.e., one of your friends has to shake you or throw water on your face or something). That doesn't seem THAT bad, unless you're the last man standing.

The problem was that it was magical sleep which means that you can't be roused normally, and as per the other "no save" creatures (like the medusa) the effects are permanent till you go through steps provided in the creature writeup. The other problem was that it was pretty darn close to a save or die effect (hit > fail save > stop playing D&D) and one of the tenets of 4E was that save or die effects sucked.

 

[Asmor]

When weird questions like this pop up, always check the Updates. The night hag was fixed in the latest batch.

It's far from official, but I know that the Oni (the only other creature in the MM with an unconscious (no save) effect) was errata'd to unconcious (save ends).

They might have missed it in the first round of erratas.

[EDIT - Or maybe they even fixed it in the last round!]

Yeah, I didn't check the updates because in googling for the Night Hag I saw someone else make reference to the Oni being fixed and the Night Hag not. Thanks!

The problem was that it was magical sleep which means that you can't be roused normally, and as per the other "no save" creatures (like the medusa) the effects are permanent till you go through steps provided in the creature writeup. The other problem was that it was pretty darn close to a save or die effect (hit > fail save > stop playing D&D) and one of the tenets of 4E was that save or die effects sucked.

And indeed that's basically what happened. It really sucked for the warlock's player, he basically got 1 action (not one turn-- 1 action) in the first 3 or 4 rounds of combat. He got dazed several more times that combat and even fell unconscious again at least once more... The most annoying thing to me is that every time I'd try to use Sacred Flame to give him a saving throw, I'd roll a natural 3.

The dice just didn't like him that night...

 

[Oompa]

Powers that do not have a duration, end after the encounter or 5 minutes..

Can't seem to find the page.. sigh..

 

[Dalzig]

Powers that do not have a duration, end after the encounter or 5 minutes..

Ill seek the page..

That is a rule for powers, not a rule for conditions. If a power states that you are dead, you don't come back to life after 5 minutes.

 

[Oompa]

Yes but the power states you go unconscious, not dead..

 

[Dalzig]

Yes but the power states you go unconscious, not dead..

Unconsicous = Dead = Petrified for all the player cares. If you never wake up, you are effectively "dead."

The results of the power do not magically go away after the encounter ends, even if the power itself does. You do not heal damage. You do not remove conditions that aren't explicitly removed. You do not revive dead enemies or team members. You do not wake up if unconscious with no save.