No ASIs, only feats

[Mrodron]

This is a question for those experienced players/DMs who find the game a bit too easy because of feats.

Has anyone considered banning ASIs and allowing only feats? (Typically, it would be just the other way.) Let's assume that point buy will be used. Without ASIs, to get, let's say, strength of 18, one would need two feats that each give +1 to STR. GWM on top of that, and the -5/+10 has become quite costly, and the strength is still 18 and not 20.

Would this change create potential balance problems?

(I understand that there are other reasons why the game is too easy. I just don't like ASIs as a concept that much.)

 

[Raith5]

I like this idea, it would also make characters more customized without feeling that they are missing out in terms of some sense of the overall powercurve, etc. But I think there would be need to be a wider range of feats to cover the full spectrum of possible archetypes.

 

[MarkB]

For a lot of my characters, I don't think there are five feats they'd have a use for. They'd probably all end up with Magic Initiate or something.

 

[Leatherhead]

It's worth trying at least.

Those half-ASI feats would be insanely popular all of a sudden. Though you might have to dust off some UA feats just to have enough variety to begin with.

 

[Coroc]

Since it is theoretically possible and legit by RAW, when using feats, to create a character who never takes an ASI but only feats - this by Definition cannot be unbalanced because RAW would be unbalanced then.

My personal experience contradicts that especially feats like GWM or SS or lucky, which are deemed as being overpowered by some, are so in reality.

If you got a DM who sends different kinds of Mobs, some with decent AC, who dishes out disad for the Group without trivial countermethods (e.g. by some Exhaustion condition or poisoned) then e.g GWM SS is a risk to use, because more often than not, you will not hit at all. Had you taken resilient constitution instead or invested +2 ASI into constitution you might not have been afflicted with the condition at all.

A constant boon is a constant boon all the time independant of the Mobs AC or disad, a +1 on a saving throw is a huge thing due to BA. it is like being 3 Levels higher if you are proficient in that saving throw.

 

[Li Shenron]

Would this change create potential balance problems?

No. Why would it create a balance problem? Balance is relative between different PCs in the same group, but as everyone is forced to take feats only and no ASI, compared to the higher flexibility of being allowed any combination of those, there might be actually more balance among those PCs.

Maybe some type of characters may run out of useful feats to choose, because despite having ~80 feats in the PHB there aren't actually that many that apply for example to spellcasters. Still, the scarcity of feats will play in favour of your concerns for the game being 'too easy', because the PCs may be forced to take some sub-par feats.

Speaking of which however, I definitely do not think this has nothing to do with the game being 'too easy'. If the game is too easy, it's because the DM is not making it challenging enough.

Edit: in retrospective, there might be a couple of second-tier 'problems' with this house rules. The first is that there is no option to keep a PC as simple as possible (feats increase complexity, ASI don't). The second is that once every PC has got the 1-2 feats they really wanted, they might all gravitate towards general-purpose and well-known strong feats such as Alert and Lucky; the game can be a bit boring when everyone in the party has the same abilities. But as I say, these are only second-tier concerns and not necessarily a 'problem'.

 

[dave2008]

You may find that multiclassing becomes more prevalent, but their shouldn't be any balance issues.

 

[Horwath]

By no ASIs, I presume that you would take 2 "half-feats" without any +1 ASI attached to it instead of one "full-feat"?

 

[Oofta]

I don't really see the point. You'll just have more min/maxing/sameness during character creation and it will work better for some builds than others. Not every class/build have feats that are going to be useful, so people will gravitate towards those classes and builds that get the most use out of feats.

But without trying it there's no way of knowing.

 

[5ekyu]

I would instead try a lower max stat, say 16.

My only balance concern is how it would impact SAD vs MAD classes if you were only limited to what you got thru point buy. (If not point buy, dont try this.)

Lowering ability max pushes the decision point to much sooner (secondary or tertiary ability vs feat.)