No iterative attacks with natural weapons?

[0-hr]

Ki Ryn - the mindflayer has improved grab, so whenever it attacks with a tentacle, it automatically attempts to grapple.

Alright then, a mindflayer has can do the following in a round then:

4 tentacle attacks, each followed by a free grapple check
or
2 normal grapple checks (really no reason to ever do this)
or
1 special attack (the "attach 4" or "extract" maneuvers)

What I find counter-intuitive is that the "special attacks" are resolved as grapple checks but cannot be done AS grapple attempts. I don't see where that follows from anything except Skip's email. To me, it seems like it would have been more consistent to just have them be extra options like anything else you can do with a successful grapple check (but with the provision that the extract required starting the round with all 4 tentacles attached).

I can live with it either way, I just suspect that the Sage-way isn't the way that most people outside of these boards would do it. Regardless, I've leared alot from this discussion and thank everyone for their input.

 

[reapersaurus]

What do I do with a silly little creature like a level 5 Barbarian lizardfolk (+6 BAB, Multiattack)?

Is it:

Two Greatclub attacks (+6/+1) and a Bite attack (+4)?

or

One Greatclub attack (+6) and a Bite attack (+4)?



Your almighty wisdom would be appreciated.


Also, a source would be nice as well...

This was discussed in detail about 3 weeks ago? I asked, and apparently noone has the definitive answers.

I'll give you my take, and the source is the explicit natural weapoins rules sidebar in Dragon 292.

If he wields a weapon, his other attack(s) are considered secondary, and with Multiattack get -2, not -5.

It explicitly states that he would get full attack bonus and 1xSTR bonus with the weapon and could use all remaining natural weapons with the typical -5 (-2 with Multiattack) and 1/2xSTR bonus.

The only part it didn't explicitly state is confirming that when using a weapon, he would get iterative attacks.
But that seems rather obvious.
It only states that natural attacks never get iterative attacks.

So, for what your lizardman gets:
+6/+1 greatclub, 1x STR
+4/+4 claw/bite, 1/2 STR

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

EDIT: Upon reviewing it further I realised the Multiattack feat replaces Abmidextarity, not Two Weapon Fighting. So if the lizard had TWF they could use the above numbers, otherswise they still have a -4 penelity to all attacks, so:
+0/-3 Club / +0 Bite
+6/+1 Club
+6/+6 Claw / +4 bite

I can see this perspective and would agree with it, except for the fact that under the heading of a normal lizardfolk in the MM, it says:

"2 claws +2 melee (or greatclub +2 melee), bite +0 melee; or javelin +1 ranged"

Using reverse engineering, a normal lizardfolk has a +1 BAB. Strength modifiers aside, that leaves:

Greatclub (+1) / Bite (-1)

If I tacked on 5 levels of barbarian, I'd either get

Greatclub (+6) / Bite (+4)

or

Greatclub (+6/+1) / Bite (+4)


I'm inclined to go with the second, just because a bite attack is 1d4 + 1/2 Str mod. Just IMHO, of course. A 15th level lizardfolk barbarian would be:

+16/+11/+6 Greatclub (3/2 Str mod.) and +14 Bite (1/2 Str mod.)

An extra attack with horrible damage that takes a rare feat is not overpowered to me.

reapersaurus---
So, for what your lizardman gets:
+6/+1 greatclub, 1x STR
+4/+4 claw/bite, 1/2 STR

Are you saying he'd get 5 attacks? (It would be a tad difficult to wield a greatclub and attack with the claws on your hands.)