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5E No Magic Shops!

Hussar

Legend
Well, seems like your suggestions are for others and not yourself. Perhaps you can enjoy some self-reflection.
Well since I’m not on multiple block lists and am not experiencing serious inconvenience, and considering my number of posts, I’d say that I’m fairly good at taking my own advice.

Case in point. The question was asked, I posited my answer. People apparently don’t like my answer but haven’t really come up with alternative behaviour either. So I could continue beating the dead horse or I could drop it. So, this is me dropping it.
 

FrogReaver

Explorer
I'm dead set against magic shops.

In the thread(s) about copy spellbooks I argued that the rules would lead inevitably to a "market" for copying spells, and that the price per level in that market would be cheap. My point (generally not understood, from what I can tell) was not that this is a balance problem, but that it's a flavor problem: I like it being rare and cool and special and exciting when a spellbook is acquired and the players get to mine it for new spells. This happens even though they probably already have most of the spells they want and need. It's just fun to add to the toolbox.

Same thing for magic items. Given that magic items are relatively permanent and abundant (yes, even in 5e. Adventurers are common enough that it's a "profession", and adventurers tend to get a few magic items over a career; ergo there are oodles of magic items) one would expect, given the rules, that there would be a market...black or otherwise...for magic items.

And yet...I like my magic items to be only discovered, never "shopped for". I could see a magic item being offered for sale as part of the plot of an adventure, but I would never encourage or facilitate players saying, "I really want a Bag of Holding. I'm going to see if I can find somebody who has one for sale." Yes, given RAW and economic truths that's not an unreasonable thing to do or expect, and yet it defies everything I want to be true about magic items.

The only kind of magic shop I could see having, in a large city, would be one selling supplies to wizards: scroll paper, rare inks, material components for spells, etc. A shop like that might have a scroll or two, or some potions, hidden away for the right customers.
Well since I’m not on multiple block lists and am not experiencing serious inconvenience, and considering my number of posts, I’d say that I’m fairly good at taking my own advice.

Case in point. The question was asked, I posited my answer. People apparently don’t like my answer but haven’t really come up with alternative behaviour either. So I could continue beating the dead horse or I could drop it. So, this is me dropping it.
I find when I get blocked that the person blocking me was typically engaging with me the same way or worse than I was with them. That’s the case because I tend to match whatever tone and attitude they give to me.

The difference is that I don’t tend to block others unless they’ve blocked me. If they do then I block them right back.
 

Maxperson

Orcus on an on Day
I find one or two quotes followed by single responses much easier to read. Whenever sentence or two is broken up and responded to, I find it distracting to the point I no longer read them if a response takes it to an extreme.
For me, I break down posts because they typically contain many different ideas/subjects and it's just much easier to respond to them by breaking those ideas up.
 

Elfcrusher

Explorer
For me, I break down posts because they typically contain many different ideas/subjects and it's just much easier to respond to them by breaking those ideas up.
I do it because I want to refute every single utterance made by said poster, to make it entirely clear, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that everything they have ever said, and everything they ever will say, is just simply WRONG.
 

Maxperson

Orcus on an on Day
I do it because I want to refute every single utterance made by said poster, to make it entirely clear, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that everything they have ever said, and everything they ever will say, is just simply WRONG.
It's good to have goals in life.
 

Strider1973

Villager
I really love the fact that there are no Magic Shops, by default! For me, Magic, even in a fantasy setting, should be something astonishing,mysterious and unpredictable, something to be handled with a lot of care by gifted few peoples...
Yes, also for this reason, D&D 5ed is definetely now my go-to game for generic low - to high fantasy! ;)
 

Charlaquin

Explorer
On the topic of the thread, I am not a fan of magic shops, but I am a fan of the magic item trade. I treat magic items like antiques. There’s no primary market, and standard pricing, but that doesn’t stop people from buying and selling them. There may even be stores that buy and sell them, but they look less like Walmart and mire like Obscura. You can’t just go down to the Fantasy Costco and pick up a 12-pack of Flametongues, you have to find a collector, see what they have and what they’re willing to part with, and haggle a bit. If you want something specific, you have to hunt down someone who has one.

I love that 5e makes no magic shops the default, but it was annoying to me how little advice there was for those who wanted to include some form of magic item trade. Fortunately, Xanathar’s Guide did eventually add the kind of advice I had wished the DMG had included, so I’m pretty happy with them stare of magic item trade now.
 

stav1369

Villager
I am very much relieved that there are no magic shops in 5e. Magic items feel special again. Finding them is both a cause for celebration and an opportunity to find creative uses for them.

That said, I like the downtime rules in XgtE for buying and selling items. While I'd change the prices a bit, I think it is the right way to implement a magic item market.

I would also like to see some tables for creating a common magic item shop. One that some common items from XgtE as well as the weaker potions and scrolls.

Except there are Magic shops in 5E.


  • TOMB OF ANNIHILATION in Port Nyanzaru there are not one but TWO magic stores.

    Wakanga 'Otamu's store sells Common and uncommon Potions as well as spell scrolls of 1st and 2nd Level.

    and

    Ekene-Afa sells Magic weapons, amunition and Shields
    She has Magic arrows 50 gp each, +1 Yklwa and +1 Dagger for 500gp and +1 Sheild for 450gp

    Waterdeep Dragon Heist also has two magic stores (at least) in Troll skull alley.

    Corellon's Crown sells magic potions:
    Potion of animal Freindship, Potion of climbing, potion of greater, healing potion of healing and Potion of water breathing

    and

    Tiger's Eye spell scrolls up to the 5th Level

    Considering the size of water deep and the fact that Troll skull alley is one tinny portion of the Metropolis it would be ridiculous to assume that these are the only magic stores in the town.

    Now ofcourse as a DM you can make magic in your world very rare and take these official magic stores out of the world if you choose.

    But this is a 93 page thread on no magic stores in 5e when there are at least 4 Official magic stores in two cities and I have not seen one person mention it.

 
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Nebulous

Explorer
I introduced a limited magic item shop in Port Nyanzaru when the PCs were stopping at civilization one last time before heading to Omu. They had a bunch of accumulated items and wealth they wanted to trade for useful stuff. I had to wing my way through the whole thing, and I definitely didn't let the players cherry pick what they wanted, and that IS what they wanted to do. But they were dealing with a wealthy Merchant Prince who had a market on magic, so it made sense within the context of the adventure that there would be stuff there to sell/buy/trade.
 

stav1369

Villager
I introduced a limited magic item shop in Port Nyanzaru when the PCs were stopping at civilization one last time before heading to Omu. They had a bunch of accumulated items and wealth they wanted to trade for useful stuff. I had to wing my way through the whole thing, and I definitely didn't let the players cherry pick what they wanted, and that IS what they wanted to do. But they were dealing with a wealthy Merchant Prince who had a market on magic, so it made sense within the context of the adventure that there would be stuff there to sell/buy/trade.
Port Nyanzaru already has 2 magic shops as described in Tomb Of Anhilation. You don't need to create them only edit them at DM discretion for extra items stocked.

This whole thread should have been over on the first page.

There are 4 Official Magic item stores in 5E.

2 in Waterdeep (Dragon hiest) and 2 in Port Nyanzaru (Tomb of annihlation)
 

Maxperson

Orcus on an on Day
Except there are Magic shops in 5E.


  • TOMB OF ANNIHILATION in Port Nyanzaru there are not one but TWO magic stores.

    Wakanga 'Otamu's store sells Common and uncommon Potions as well as spell scrolls of 1st and 2nd Level.

    and

    Ekene-Afa sells Magic weapons, amunition and Shields
    She has Magic arrows 50 gp each, +1 Yklwa and +1 Dagger for 500gp and +1 Sheild for 450gp

    Waterdeep Dragon Heist also has two magic stores (at least) in Troll skull alley.

    Corellon's Crown sells magic potions:
    Potion of animal Freindship, Potion of climbing, potion of greater, healing potion of healing and Potion of water breathing

    and

    Tiger's Eye spell scrolls up to the 5th Level

    Considering the size of water deep and the fact that Troll skull alley is one tinny portion of the Metropolis it would be ridiculous to assume that these are the only magic stores in the town.

    Now ofcourse as a DM you can make magic in your world very rare and take these official magic stores out of the world if you choose.

    But this is a 93 page thread on no magic stores in 5e when there are at least 4 Official magic stores in two cities and I have not seen one person mention it.

None of those are magic shops as they are being used in this thread, though. Nor are they magic shops as 5e says don't exist unless you want them to. You can't go into them and buy any magic item you want. The inventories are highly limited.
 

S'mon

Hero
I have a fair bit of magic item buying imcs. The difference from 3e/4e is that PCs can't just buy or craft whatever they want, I use curated lists of ca 12-20 items, usually common and uncommon. So if an item would break game it's not in list. I also vary purchase prices quite a bit, typically uncommon items cost more than 500gp, I will do anything from 500 to 5000 for an uncommon.

Then I vary prices by x5 per tier not x10. So a rare would be 5000 to 25000, very rare 25000 to 125000 and legendary 125000 to 625000.
 
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stav1369

Villager
Of course they are magic shops.

they are official source materia in 2 official 5e campaign/modules.

They are shops that stock exclusivley (3 of the stores) a limited set of magic items. That is the very definition of magic shop.


"You can't go into them and buy any magic item you want."

Yes you can....there is no restriction on any of the 4 magic stores placed on adventureres in Tomb of Anhilation or Dragon Heist.
If adventurers have the money they simply can walk in and purchase any of the listed items at any time they please.

Just b/c they have a limited range of items does not mean they are not magic stores....no store in the world (real or fantasy) is a one stop shop where you can pick up any item in existance.

The point is that there are no less then 4 stores in 5e (that we know of) that you can walk into and buy magic items straight of the shelf with no restrictions beyond gold that are official Source Material.

The only thing that changes this is the DMs discretion in any given campaign but OFFICIALY 4 magic stores DO exist.
 

Hussar

Legend
Note, that Ghosts of Saltmarsh makes buying magic items a la carte entirely possible. Granted, you might have to wait for Magic Amazon to deliver your bespoke item, but, it is entirely possible to buy magic items in Saltmarsh.
 

Nebulous

Explorer
Didn't 4e have the rule where players could get whatever magic item they asked for at a certain level, so long as it was level appropriate?
 

stav1369

Villager
None of those are magic shops as they are being used in this thread, though. Nor are they magic shops as 5e says don't exist unless you want them to. You can't go into them and buy any magic item you want. The inventories are highly limited.
Of course they are magic shops.

they are official source materia in 2 official 5e campaign/modules.

They are shops that stock exclusivley (3 of the stores) a limited set of magic items. That is the very definition of magic shop.


"You can't go into them and buy any magic item you want."

Yes you can....there is no restriction on any of the 4 magic stores placed on adventureres in Tomb of Anhilation or Dragon Heist.
If adventurers have the money they simply can walk in and purchase any of the listed items at any time they please.

Just b/c they have a limited range of items does not mean they are not magic stores....no store in the world (real or fantasy) is a one stop shop where you can pick up any item in existance.

The point is that there are no less then 4 stores in 5e (that we know of) that you can walk into and buy magic items straight of the shelf with no restrictions beyond gold that are official Source Material.

The only thing that changes this is the DMs discretion in any given campaign but OFFICIALY 4 magic stores DO exist.

I understand there is no shop where you can buy "ANY" magic item but their is no general store where you can buy any item in existance either. Diffrent stores stock diffrent items.
 

FrogReaver

Explorer
Of course they are magic shops.

they are official source materia in 2 official 5e campaign/modules.

They are shops that stock exclusivley (3 of the stores) a limited set of magic items. That is the very definition of magic shop.


"You can't go into them and buy any magic item you want."

Yes you can....there is no restriction on any of the 4 magic stores placed on adventureres in Tomb of Anhilation or Dragon Heist.
If adventurers have the money they simply can walk in and purchase any of the listed items at any time they please.

Just b/c they have a limited range of items does not mean they are not magic stores....no store in the world (real or fantasy) is a one stop shop where you can pick up any item in existance.

The point is that there are no less then 4 stores in 5e (that we know of) that you can walk into and buy magic items straight of the shelf with no restrictions beyond gold that are official Source Material.

The only thing that changes this is the DMs discretion in any given campaign but OFFICIALY 4 magic stores DO exist.

I understand there is no shop where you can buy "ANY" magic item but their is no general store where you can buy any item in existance either. Diffrent stores stock diffrent items.
It's obviously evident that the poster doesn't mean no magic shops exists. He's using magic shop in a specific way that you are not - essentially you are arguing semantics (which you are right on the semantics part - but there's still no need to argue over it).

Essentially - All he is saying is that there are no shops where he can acquire most magic items his heart desires. That's true.
 

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