D&D 5E No Magic Shops!

[delericho]

Early 2E was more or elss the same as 1E you could not buy magic items.

In fact, 2nd Ed goes further than that - the DMG explicitly states that there are no magic item shops and advises the DM very strongly against adding them, on the grounds that the PCs should feel like adventurers, not greengrocers. No gp values for items are given, for purchase or for sale. (There are XP values listed - these are the number of XP a character gains for crafting the item.)

All that said, these days I'm inclined to ignore almost all the advice in the 2nd Ed DMG. (That's ignore, not "do the opposite".) It's not that it's all wrong; it's that enough of it is to make the rest suspect - better to find other sources of wisdom!

 

[Zardnaar]

In fact, 2nd Ed goes further than that - the DMG explicitly states that there are no magic item shops and advises the DM very strongly against adding them, on the grounds that the PCs should feel like adventurers, not greengrocers. No gp values for items are given, for purchase or for sale. (There are XP values listed - these are the number of XP a character gains for crafting the item.)

All that said, these days I'm inclined to ignore almost all the advice in the 2nd Ed DMG. (That's ignore, not "do the opposite".) It's not that it's all wrong; it's that enough of it is to make the rest suspect - better to find other sources of wisdom!

I quite like 2E DMG. The can't buy magic item thing was also repeated on latter books.

 

[epithet]

Which price list are you using?

I use Sane Magic Item Prices as a starting point, then tweak it however seems appropriate.

 

[Sleepy Walker]

I agree that going through and assigning values for magic items is not easy. Another thing to consider is that it would be rare for every merchant, even experienced ones, to know the precise value of each magic item at first glance.

I was going to modify Sane Magic Item Prices, but I think there is not enough payout for the amount of work it takes (I already spent a good day just modifying that).

I think it is best to maintain the DMG's price structure for magic items, focusing on common -> Artifact for the pricing structure, with a series of modifiers for Very Useful, Semi Useful, Not Useful. Additionally, modifiers for Magic is Common, Magic is Rare, Magic is Outlawed/Taboo. Combine the above with the DMG prescribed magic selling rules.

This allows for a general price structure depending on location, usefulness, and rarity, but not so much as to give a per-gold estimate for each one. It also means that turning an unwanted magic item into coin takes time and ideally a trek to a city with a black market or sending feelers out for a buyer.


Ultimately, if the players are trying looking to buy magic and the magic is overpriced for what it does, then don't buy the magic. The trick is to make sure each item has approximately the correct usefulness modifier, but it does not have to be 100% spot on for it to work.

I also think that any magic shop or auction or whatever should not have +x weapon/armor. I think the mastercrafting aspect of the game should be greatly expanded to include much of the current generic modifiers.

*edit* This would do double duty in that getting materials and finances to have a master smith forge plate that much better would be a great way to spend gold. It also allows the player to go with normally less useful armor (chain mail, ring, or chain shirt) to be the perfect options for mastercrafting, since their lower price points would allow for cheaper masterwork items that still provide bonuses.

It would change the entire face of the game when it comes to armor and what path a player wants to take.

 

[Rossbert]

That was 4e.

Fine in theory but it falls down at "heroes are few and far between", as in a true points-of-light setting there's likely to be in the population a greater proportion of "heroes" than in a more peaceful (i.e. bog-standard) setting; as these heroes are all that prevent the points of light from being snuffed out completely.

Why is this relevant? Because more heroes likely means more adventurers, and more adventurers likely means more magic items entering the economy, and more magic items likely means there'll be some trading and bartering and buying/selling of such.

Lan-"a points-of-light setting is step one towards a grittier and darker campaign"-efan

I will concede accidentally using old canon on this one. You have a very good point on everyone needing to be tougher, the only thing that makes it work (in this context) is if the great works (and by extension magics) of the past are lost and forgotten. In this case this has to include magic item manufacturing and the assumption that there are not a huge number left functioning. In the end that setting feels more like Lord of the Rings were a sword that glows in the presence of certain creatures or one that is enchanted to be extra effective against goblins is a great treasure.

 

[Guest 6801328]

the only thing that makes it work (in this context) is if the great works (and by extension magics) of the past are lost and forgotten. In this case this has to include magic item manufacturing and the assumption that there are not a huge number left functioning.

This is why I ended up with "tools made by somebody who is dead" as the only remotely analogous thing I could think of for the real world: if there's no way to buy something (easily), it must be because supply is constrained.

And since I prefer the aesthetic of magic items being rare and wonderful and a matter of serendipity not shopping (let's call it the "Lost Blades of Gondolin" aesthetic) that means in my worlds the art of crafting magic items must be severely constrained. For some reason.

I'm not starting with an explanation of the source and then working forward to the conclusion magic items must be abundant; I'm starting with the aesthetic I prefer and working backward to an assumption about the source.

 

[Rossbert]

Maybe there are not a lot of wizards? Maybe crafting is an insane hassle like 'forged in a volcano' or 'quenched in a medusa's tears' bad? I feel like that would limit the amount of people willing to invest that kind of time and risk.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Maybe there are not a lot of wizards? Maybe crafting is an insane hassle like 'forged in a volcano' or 'quenched in a medusa's tears' bad? I feel like that would limit the amount of people willing to invest that kind of time and risk.

Yes, overly restrictive manufacturing requirements could be part of it. Or exceptionally rare materials.

On a related note, there's a great documentary about the (purported) rediscovery/re-invention of true Damascus steel:
[video=youtube;OP8PCkcBZU4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP8PCkcBZU4[/video]

 

[Rossbert]

I always liked when creating an item had a significant quest for components, roughly on par for finding a cool item.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I always liked when creating an item had a significant quest for components, roughly on par for finding a cool item.

That's a great way of thinking about. "Look, you can find the tomb, brave its dangers, and face down the boss at the end in order to get the sword. Or you can find this other tomb, brave its dangers, and face down the boss at the end in order to get the ingredients to make a sword just like it. Take your pick. The magic store would be happy to provide you with some rare inks and a live carp, if that will help."