D&D 5E No Magic Shops!

[Matrix Sorcica]

I sincerely hope that all the people I have told lately that D&D has changed and is cool and mainstream and fun never see the contents of this thread

Valuable input. Thank you.

 

[MoonSong]

Back on track then, my position, I'm sure I gave it earlier, and I'm not going to justify it, this is just personal preference.

I never DM a game which includes magic shops.

Not ever.

I don't want to play in a game that includes or expects 'magic markets', or even allows the items to be easily made.

I don't want rules to exist to allow for this playstyle. Not even optional rules. Sorry, to me those type of rules send the game in the wrong direction and give players seeds of expectation I don't want them to have.

Is this back on topic enough?

Yeah, how dare those wrong-players want magic items and treasure to be more than just empty promises meant to keep them in the Skinner box...

Edit: And this was obviously hyperbole. Sorry about that. But honestly that is my vision from my experience you either allow players to control what magic items they can get, or these items might as well not exist because they will never be found, or if found it happens so late in the campaign that they never get used.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

1. My understanding of the ignore feature is that it allows me to be discerning about the experience I want to have on the forums. If I determine that I don't want to read what someone else is doing, I don't have to. However, I don't think that prevents the blocked person from seeing my posts unless they choose not to.

Unfortunately, it doesn't just block you from seeing their posts, it also blocks your posts from them. With all the concomitant disruption to page count, last posts read, post tracking etc for them.
While I wouldn't agree that a single instance does constitute bullying, it is a way to cause a lot of hassle for someone, in an entirely forum-legal (and positively encouraged) way.

2. Based on this definition, I'm not bullying into doing anything. My only intention in advising Max that I was blocking him was so that he knew I wouldn't be replying to anything he wrote to me. I suggested that he also block me if he found what I was writing difficult to deal with on his end.

Again my apologies to those who are replying to Max in my stead. I'll be less forthcoming in the future when it comes to using the ignore function.

Paradoxically, its actually more considerate not to inform someone that you're blocking them, particularly if you quote them to do so. The block feature works retroactively, so they will see a notification that you replied to/quoted them, but be unable to actually see that post.
This can be used to ensure that you get the 'last word' in an argument, since you could make a bunch of statements or arguments and then block the person you are discussing with in order to prevent them from countering them. Others reading the discussion will be unaware that your opponent can't see your assertions. and may come to the conclusion that you have persuaded them to your view instead.

And while that isn't what you did, the person that you blocked doesn't know that.

 

[Kobold Boots]

And while that isn't what you did, the person that you blocked doesn't know that.

Appreciate the information Cap'n. Had I known that up front it would have changed the order of events prior to my hitting the ignore button.

Be well
KB

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

In my games, there is a definite magical economy, but it is now mostly focused on less 'adventurer' and more commercial markets. There are no magical item marts, but investigation by the players can locate some items for sale. Pricing is more situational than just using the DMG's prices. I make some adjustments for the situation, but I would not use a 'true utility-based price' list where enchanting one item might cost hundreds of times more than enchanting a different one with the same effect.

I do allow players to buy common magical items, of the level and capabilities of those given in Xanathar's. Likewise some 'quality of life' items that aren't directly applicable to combat or similar adventuring pursuits.

Because its Eberron, more items have elemental or similar effects rather than straight +bonuses. The party currently have a mix of 'standard, commercially-produced' items and unique items with specific history behind them.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Maxperson]

So, going to address this, since it is (IMO) much more interesting than another magic shop argument.

Different forums can have different rules regarding an ignore feature. That said, there is certainly a good reason to set it up like this. Imagine, if you will, that you feel someone is harassing or bullying you (or just being a jerk). Now, your view might be that if you don't see it, who cares, right? OTOH, if the ignore feature simply prevented you from seeing them, then that person might be able to keep making their obnoxious posts about you (for instance, replying to your quotes) without you ever knowing. Which will be distressing when you notice that other people refer to those posts. See what I mean?

Now, this might not be the way you like it. And that's fine! Different strokes for different folks, and all that. But (IMO) it does have an immediate and positive impact on discourse, as it removes the antagonists from a conversation. On both sides. Without requiring constant moderation. It also helps serve as an informal civility code; after all, I don't like being ignored, and I'm sure others don't like it as well, and that helps temper otherwise intemperate conversations.

If there were any moderation needed at all, I could see the "without constant moderation" as a possibility here, but there wasn't and usually isn't. And if there is, it rarely takes more than one instance of moderation as the behavior almost always stops.

The downside is that I can no longer see worthwhile posts from the individual who forced me to block them. I also can't respond to things they say in the discussion. The thing about forums like this is that you are never having a discussion with one person. This very side discussion is a prime example of that. I commented on what [MENTION=1727]kobold[/MENTION] Boots did when he blocked me. Someone responded to me(and everyone else in this thread). I responded to that person(and everyone else in this thread). [MENTION=6801328]Elfcrusher[/MENTION] responded, because we were talking to him as well. That discussion went on for a while, and now you are involved.

If a person doesn't want to see my posts, fine. I have no problem with that and there should be a way for that to happen. Disallowing me to see and respond to their posts due to something that almost never happens anyway("almost constant moderation") is not a good reason.

Now, it doesn't remove you ability to read those threads by the person who ignored you, if you really want to. Just don't log in.

That's a pain in the ass and doesn't allow me to respond. I'm trying to spy on them. I want to see their additions to the conversation and be able to respond to everyone in the thread if I desire.

Personally, I like it. I tend to be quick with the ignore feature. Life is too short, and all that. TBH, sometimes I am the one at fault (either partially, or mostly) and it works as a timeout for me. But I also review my block list fairly often. I'll usually lift it after a couple of days to see if I was wrong.

But I do have a strict "three strike and you're out policy." If I've put you on ignore three times, it's not worth my time to review it. Like I said, life's too short, and the forum is supposed to be fun.

I totally get that and people should be able to block those that they don't want to see. I should not be blocked from seeing that person though, ESPECIALLY with all of the mechanical problems that this site has with regard to that feature. It's not just that they have forced me to block them I also cannot go into a thread that they have started to discuss with others. I cannot use the links to go to posts when people quote me or give exp. They don't work when someone who has blocked me is in the thread, so if I want to see who gave exp/laugh to a post, I have to slog through the entire thread manually. I can't use the button to go back to the post I just quoted. That breaks, too.

TLDR; I think that the ignore feature, along with good moderation, is one of the reasons that enworld has managed to keep a high level of discourse that is far too rare on the internet nowadays. I enjoy the high signal-to-noise ratio.

And I don't think this would change if the person blocked could still see the posts of the person who blocked them. They would still not be having a back and forth that is disruptive.

 

[Nevvur]

@Maxperson

You keep describing this as something you've been forced to do. You chose to participate in a forum with a blocking mechanism you don't like. You chose to engage in a quarrel that resulted in another member using that blocking mechanism. He didn't do anything to you that you didn't implicitly agree to.

In any case, if you don't like the mechanism, start a different thread about it, at least. You're probably not alone in your preference, and maybe Morrus et al will take that into consideration if there's a focused body of discussion around it.

 

[Maxperson]

[MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION]
You keep describing this as something you've been forced to do. You chose to participate in a forum with a blocking mechanism you don't like.

First, it was changed to this format after I arrived. Second, the pros outweigh the cons or I wouldn't be here. That does not mean that the cons, especially bullying, should not be fought against. I don't have to meekly accept mistreatment by the site.

You chose to engage in a quarrel that resulted in another member using that blocking mechanism. He didn't do anything to you that you didn't implicitly agree to.

No. I never agreed in any way to be bullied. That's victim blaming and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*