Insight said:
Here's the problem with a group of mixed min/maxers and people that try to play real characters. The people who try to play real characters always get screwed. See, the DM is going to have to come up with creatures that can hit twink boy, and those guys will hit my character EVERY SINGLE TIME. That doesn't give me a fighting chance.
DON'T YOU DARE SAY that b/c I like being powerful I'm not playing a "REAL" f-ing character. Get off your moral god-damn high horse. What do you know about me or my 'Character concept'? Abso-friggign-lutely nothing, that's what, and you make it quite obvious.
I don't think anyone's feelings are hurt or anything.
Guess Again. How can you say crap like THIS :
If one person in the group is a min/maxer, they will always not only steal the show, but make it harder for everyone else to be effective in what they do.
Well, my character concept is completely shot. Since I don't min/max my character into a huge pile of stats and try to make one that has a personality, I can't imagine fitting in with twink-alots. He can't do ANYTHING that either the broken warforged or the twinked feral saint swashbuckler half-vampire troll quarter celestial (add three more templates here) characters don't do a heckuva lot better.
Unfortunately, that character and mine would be laughed out of this game. I don't think I have the time or patience to compete with the twinks of the world. I just want to play a game and try to make something of it. The constant oneupsmanship is very very tired.
and not expect hard feelings? Any first year psych student would think you're TRYING to provoke a fight. Congrats you succeeded. (And just as a side note, I didn't WANT to add three more templates there, you pompous prick, I'm actually creating a character, not trying to piss people off.)
I'm so angry right now that my hands are literally shaking. My entire gaming life I've had to deal with "people" like you saying that you're inherently better than me b/c your character isn't a "HORRIBLE TWINK". Because you care more about your characters background and personality than his stats.
I COULD point out that I put just as much time into my character's personality as I do into his stats.
I COULD point out all the downsides, all the things my character can't do.
I COULD point out that any DM worth his salt doesn't design encounters against a SINGLE INDIVIDUAL in a group.
I COULD point out that I offered to change the Freaking character.
I COULD point out that I quoted exactly what would be lost by dropping the "Feral" template, and it's not much.
I COULD point out that I have the same chance of hitting most things that they have of hitting me... So in otherwords, EVERYTHING we face at this level is "unhittable" to me if anybody can miss it at all.
Speaking of... [sblock=If it can hit you it can't miss us]
Bull. If any of the main fighters can MISS it, then I can't HIT it. So by your logic, anybody with a high attack bonus is a horrible twink compared to me. Zeb.Hillard and Bloodweaver are both 'HORRIBLE TWINK's' by your definition, b/c if they can MISS something, none of the rest of us can HIT it. So maybe
I should quit, because they make MY character useless by your messed up logic.
WHY do people think that the DM is going to base his opponents stats around the most powerful PC's? "OK, the highest attack bonus is +30 so the boss has an AC 41. The highest AC is 60 so the boss has an attack bonus of +55. The most HP is 400, so the boss does 100 damage a shot. The best spellcaster has + 26 to overcome SR, so the boss has SR 40." No good DM does that. If they do they're screwing over all the players, INCLUDING THE PLAYERS WHO PUT TIME INTO GETTING THEIR HIGH NUMBERS. If you actually believe the DM's gonna make characters like that, then stats don't matter at ALL. In fact, everybody should make the LOWEST numbers they can, and play lvl 1 fighters/wizards, so that the badguy will be correspondingly weak and then we'll sick a summoned badger on him.
IF you TRULEY believe the DM's gonna make opponents like that, then it doesn't matter how horribly twinked the characters are, b/c the DM's gonna just say "mine's better".
I've actually gamed under DM's like that. They DON'T keep groups.
What's the freaking point of weapon focus if all it means is that you opponents AC goes up by one? Weapon Spec means your opponent gains an additional 50 HP. Learning Maximized Fireball means your opponent gains Fire Resist 30. Those are tools of a DM that doesn't know what the hell he's doing, and I think Darimaus DOES know what he's doing.[/sblock]
^side rant
I COULD point out a lot of things!
Instead, I'm GOING to point out that if me having an AC of 70 makes it harder for you to be a Psion, then maybe you need to learn how to play the freaking game, cuz I fail to see how that's related in the SLIGHTEST.
I don't know much about psionics except that I keep hearing that they're more powerful than normal magic.. So re: mages.... If we face an opponent who can't fly, a third level spell does MORE than my uber-AC. It makes you completely unhittable, b/c they can't reach you, instead of mostly (need a nat 20) unhittable like me. HELL, a ROPE TRICK spell beats anybody who can't dispel it or cast spells across planes! Don't get me started on Polymorphing or Teleporting. All things a TENTH LEVEL HUMAN SORCEROR can do. WOW, 10 levels in Sorceror? What a horrendous twink!
I just hope that we can view this as firstly, a game...and not deserving of bitterness or bile. And secondly...with some humor. Nothing dissolves bad feelings faster than a willingness to laugh, even if the situation seems irritating. Lets try to keep the discussion on a bit of a lighter note, I'd ask. No one's out to hurt feelings here.
Sorry, Shayuri, I respect you and all but It's a bit late for that. Insight needs to start thinking before he posts. Calling someone a horrible twink, blaming them for your bad experiences, and all the other crap is not something you do for a laugh.
I KNOW I went a bit overboard with the ranting in this post, but I'm sick of this, I'm sick of people telling me i'm not a real gamer b/c I create better characters than them. And I don't mean better in every way either, as anybody who actually reads my posts would know. If you make a character who's exceptional at ANYTHING he's going to be singled out by all the jealous people who can't/won't do the same thing.
*BTW, Shayuri - Your shadowdancer with an AC in the mid 40's would have the same chance of hitting me as I have of hitting him(We both need nat 20's). And you deal more damage. How's that bad?*
I can't blame Jemal or anyone else for optimizing and such. I do it myself, and while I do it to a lesser extent, that lesser extent isn't because I'm somehow truer to the game or whatever. It's because I don't have the patience to cobble as many of those rules together.
Just for the record, my character requries 3 levels of complete adventurer, 3 levels and 1 feat of complete warrior, and 1 template(I already showed that dropping the feral causes no difference, leaving Saint). All the items are Core, over half of the class levels are core, and 6 out of 7 feats are core. The main concept (Getting an ac over 70) took me and a room mate less than half an hour. Then It was just minor number tweaks to get it to look like i wanted it to look, and save some money so I could get my wings of flying. This isn't b/c I have more books, or more patience, just that I had a concept of a guy who parries everything, and I had the desire and the will to act on that concept, and I made him.
Finally : I'm not apologizing for anything I said, b/c it's true.
![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
