D&D 5E No more D&D MtG Premier Sets (Blogatog & State of the Game sources)

[Henadic Theologian]

If it sold well, WoTC would be fools not to do more D&D sets in the main Magic releases. Hasbro has profit expectations.

it sold well, but it's to specific subset of people, mostly D&D & Forgotten Realms fans, not more traditional MtG fans. A product that does crazy well with a particular subset of the players is what Supplemental sets are for, Premiere Sets are for the broader fandom. Apparently Supplemental Sets can do extremely profitable as well, I mean the most profitable set as far as I know this year, was Modern Horizons 2, which surprised me because it's NOT standard legal and it's really mostly targeted towards enfrancised hard-core players and collectors and Varthos, not casuals many of whom are put off by the higher price (which admittedly was worth it)

Supplemental Sets also have ALOT more freedom in what mechanics and how many mechanics they use and mixing mechanics and reprints and how many Legends the set can have, and they can and often do have higher power levels.

I think a supplement that learns from AFRs successes and mistakes and takes the freedom and space that supplemental sets offer (such as Commander Legends, Conspiracy, Battle Bond, and Modern Horizons 1&2) to innovate can be vastly more profitable then AFR.

Here is a link to Mark saying AFR sold well.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

It did sell well, and they will do more D&D sets, they just won’t be “premier” sets (meaning, standard-legal). Presumably because they think they will sell better as supplemental sets. And they’re probably right about that.

Agreed, Supplement sets have far more freedom then Standard legal sets which have more restrictions.

 

[Ibrandul]

100% kitchen table player here: apart from not being able to use the cards in the Standard competitive format, which I wasn't planning to ever do anyway, I have no idea what this declaration actually means.

Here's the best way I can come up with to ask the question: without any changes to the AFR cards themselves or the various booster formats etc. in which they were released, could AFR have been a non-premier set if WotC had simply declared it to be not Standard-legal?

 

[Charlaquin]

100% kitchen table player here: apart from not being able to use the cards in the Standard competitive format, which I wasn't planning to ever do anyway, I have no idea what this declaration actually means.

That’s pretty much all it means. “Premier set” is just the term WotC uses for standard-legal sets.

Here's the best way I can come up with to ask the question: without any changes to the AFR cards themselves or the various booster formats etc. in which they were released, could AFR have been a non-premier set if WotC had simply declared it to be not Standard-legal?

Yep, they could have released the exact same set as a supplemental set instead of a premier set if they wanted to. Same design, same boosters, same everything. I suppose they would have needed to release it at a different time of the year, since premier sets are released on a specific schedule and supplemental sets are released between them.

The thing is, had AFR been a supplemental set instead of a premier set, there are a lot of things that could have been done differently. Premier sets have a lot of constraints on them due to being legal in the Standard format that supplemental sets don’t. A big one is how mechanically complex the set is allowed to be. There are a lot of mechanics in Magic that could have been a great fit for AFR thematically (Party, level up, etc.) but weren’t, in part because Premier sets are only able to have so many different mechanics in them, to keep their complexity appropriate for a standard legal set. Another example is power level. Premier sets need to be an appropriate power level for the standard format, but supplemental sets can have stronger cards, since they don’t have to go through standard.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

That’s pretty much all it means. “Premier set” is just the term WotC uses for standard-legal sets.

Yep, they could have released the exact same set as a premier set instead of a standard legal set if they wanted to. Same design, same boosters, same everything. I suppose they would have needed to release it at a different time of the year, since premier sets are released on a specific schedule and supplemental sets are released between them.

The thing is, had AFR been a supplemental set instead of a premier set, there are a lot of things that could have been done differently. Premier sets have a lot of constraints on them due to being legal in the Standard format that supplemental sets don’t. A big one is how mechanically complex the set is allowed to be. There are a lot of mechanics in Magic that could have been a great fit for AFR thematically (Party, level up, etc.) but weren’t, in part because Premier sets are only able to have so many different mechanics in them, to keep their complexity appropriate for a standard legal set. Another example is power level. Premier sets need to be an appropriate power level for the standard format, but supplemental sets can have stronger cards, since they don’t have to go through standard.

Party still wouldn't have worked directly, because the mechanic itself sets server restrictions on any set its in, you need a ton of Clerics, Warriors, Rogues, and Wizards which means there is little room for other class creature types or monsters like Beholders.

Instead it could have had cards that enable party like some clerics/warriors/wizards/rogues, but also maybe a card that tutors for those creature types for example. For example a rare land that when you play a clerics/warriors/wizards/rogue, you can look at the top card of your library and if it's a
clerics/warriors/wizards/rogues, you can play it. Think a party based version of Biblioplex, instead of instant/sorceries. They could call it Yawning Portal Tavern or something.


Otherwise I agree with what you wrote.

 

[Myrdin Potter]

Supplemental sets have inherent lower appeal. If you are not reprinting existing powerful cards to be played in other that Standard formats, you need a set to be standard legal for the number of cards and draw of needing it for the main format for a couple of years.

The real truth is that they dialed down the power level as several previous ones were too much the other way. If they has put better cards into AFR, much less complaints.

 

[Charlaquin]

Supplemental sets have inherent lower appeal.

That just isn’t true. Look at Modern Horizons (both of them). Look at Time Spiral Remastered. Supplemental sets sell, and often at higher prices than premier sets.

If you are not reprinting existing powerful cards to be played in other that Standard formats,you need a set to be standard legal for the number of cards and draw of needing it for the main format for a couple of years.

As long as you’re printing powerful cards to be played in other formats, it doesn’t really matter if they’re reprints of existing cards. Powerful new cards sell sets too.

The real truth is that they dialed down the power level as several previous ones were too much the other way. If they has put better cards into AFR, much less complaints.

That doesn’t seem to be the feedback AFR has been getting. The majority of the feedback is very polarized, due to tension between the interests of the set’s two target audiences: Enfranchised Magic players who want a good standard set, and casual, new, and lapsed Magic players who are attracted by the D&D branding and theming. The former group care about the power level of the set relative to the rest of the standard environment, but the latter group does not. The former group hated dice rolling in black border Magic, the latter loved it. The former group couldn’t care less that there wasn’t an Elminster card in the set, the latter is (apparently) furious about it.

What’s the solution? Don’t make sets like this premier sets any more. That way design decisions can be made to appeal specifically to the latter group, without impacting the standard environment and upsetting the former group.

 

[R_J_K75]

Im not a MtG player. I think in my 46 years I've played twice, maybe three times. Not knocking it, just wasnt my thing, was always a D&D player. MtG meets D&D or vice versa seems forced to me like that person in high school that tried to hang out with everyone because they didnt fit in with any of them. I'd like to see WotC concentrate on creating products for MtG fans or D&D fans, but not both.

 

[Bolares]

it sold well, but it's to specific subset of people, mostly D&D & Forgotten Realms fans, not more traditional MtG fans.

Is there really data supporting this? All I've seen is that it sells well but is polarazing. Haven't seen any data that shows who is buyng this set.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Is there really data supporting this? All I've seen is that it sells well but is polarazing. Haven't seen any data that shows who is buyng this set.

it's more anecdotal, just looking at who says good things about the set vs those who complain about it online and asking local LGS etc...