No! No! Baaaaaaad Marvel Comics!

[Piratecat]

Randolpho, you've perfectly described how I feel about the movie "Constantine." It's a horrible Hellblazer movie, but darn it all, it's a really fun movie. I just had to take it on its own merits to realize that.

I utterly detested the first FF movie, but I'm cautiously excited about the second one. Fingers crossed.

 

[DonTadow]

Sorry, pal- I grew up with the FF, and while I was still into comics (I quit them in about 1996 or so) I bought all of the Marvel Universe books, etc.

At no point that I can recall did the Silver Surfer evidence the ability to muck with people's powers like that.

Zip through space? Check.
Zap people with energy? Check.
Take a shot from the Thing and keep going? Check.
Sense life across the interstellar void? Check.

Alter someone's suite of super-powers & abilities? Ummm...no. There just isn't enough Handwavium in the Universe for me to accept that.

My point is that the series has decades of history & storylines to play with- they didn't need to change this aspect of the titular character. Its bad writing.

If they wanted to do that kind of jerking the FF around, there are plenty of other beings in the Marvel Universe who could do that kind of thing. For instance, they could have had the Scarlet Witch lose control of her reality-altering powers during a meeting with the FF...right before the Silver Surfer showed up (and incidentally, launched the possibility of a series of Avenger movies).

Unneccesary changes like this by Hollywood are a pet peeve of mine...the surprise ending of The Scarlet Letter...the new foe for King Arthur to fight in First Knight- these did nothing for the fans of the inspirational material. Some, like myself, consider it somewhat of an insult.


There is a way to be true to the comics without slavishly following them AND without resorting to wholesale or unneccesary alterations. The Spider-Man and X-Men movies have done pretty well on that front.

IMHO, Constantine suffered by divorcing the character from his Cockney roots, for example.

There are no other superheroes in the world other than the ones in the movie

The thing we got to try to understand is that they only have 2 hours. They would have too much explaining of scarlet witch (who has never been introduced evne in the xmen movies). No regular audience goer has that kind of time, and why muck with the entire movie for some comic relief. Honestly, it doesn't seem that bad to me. I've seen worst mockeries of comic book continium (Spiderman 3's venom meteor crap, Batman 4's origin of Bane)

Spiderman and Xmen have mucked up a ton of comic book classic storylines. (Storm's nemesis in Xmen 3 just to give Halle Berry more screen time, Spiderman 3: the Musical).

 

[Mistwell]

I utterly detested the first FF movie, but I'm cautiously excited about the second one. Fingers crossed.

Ditto that.

I was really disappointed that the powers that be didn't make the first FF movie a period piece set in the early 60s, with those early color film tones. It would have been so much better. The camp of the movie would have worked so much better as well.

 

[Nightfall]

*five*

Still...all I know is we do have a Marvel Cross over movie, it should be Onslaught.

That guy is one freaking scary mofo!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Forget about the origin of the plot. Forget all about the "SS & FF brands." Forget it all. Go enjoy the movie as a movie. Look for plot, character development, interesting dialog, exciting special effects. Don't stay away from a movie just because it does things different than the comics or "changes the brand".

Don't be that guy.

I don't mind changes.

I mind changes that are bad or arbitrary.

There are no other superheroes in the world other than the ones in the movie

I understand that- the Scarlet Witch's probability affecting powers were just one example of gaining the same effect as in the movie without changing a thing about the SS character. (Proteus, from X-Men storylines, would have been another...)

IOW, I'm saying there were ways to do that "power switch" without mucking with the integrity of the SS character.

After all, Reed Richards is constantly pushing the boundaries of super-science in his lab- perhaps one of his numerous attempts to alleviate the monstrosity of Ben Grim's condition could have gone awry...at the worst possible moment.

But to simply discount the entire movie just because it clashes with the Fantastic Four/Silver Surfer "brand" is an injustice not only to the movie, but to yourself. You are denying
yourself the chance to see what may turn out to be a fairly decent movie.

I really don't think so. IMHO, making needless changes are an injustice to the source material. I see no reason to scale down my critique of a film just because its a "comic book movie."

I already had a problem with the change with Reed Richards no longer being significantly older than his wife Sue- their May-September romance was a defining part of their characters, a solid link between them and other romances of the sci-fi movies of the era in which the FF originated. Eliminating that also excised certain dynamics between the two of them.

The change in LotR that you cited is one that could possibly be viewed as an improvement over the original source material. While JRRT was a fantastic world builder and linguist, there are flaws in his writing. His prose could be tighter, for instance, or certain interactions more realistic. Even with that, though, his stuff is rightfully considered to be classic.

But in no way is this randomization of the FF's powers by the SS an improvement.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

How, exactly, does a side affect of coming into contact with the Silver Surfer changing powers around have anything at all to do with the INTEGRITY of the character?

Not to mention the movie isn't OUT yet so you don't even know how central that is to the plot. Obviously, it has SOME effect, but as I've mentioned several times...it looks to have a POSITIVE one beyond the comedy bits. i.e. Johnny going all Super Skrull with the mixed powers.

THAT is more of a change that something like the Power Cosmic, which may not even be a change because what it can do is so vague anyway. And the Power Cosmic has new effects and does something else everytime a new writer has anything to do with it...so why is this any different?

If you don't like the it, that's one thing...but you haven't even seen the movie so you're basing this outrage on trailers that never give a very good view of what actually happens in the movie.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

How, exactly, does a side affect of coming into contact with the Silver Surfer changing powers around have anything at all to do with the INTEGRITY of the character?

Like I mentioned before, the power scrambling effect that is so tremendously useful that it would have been used early and often in any combat, especially if its something that the SS can do because Galactus can do it. The trailers I've seen indicate that, early on, at least, the victims of the power switch are unable to control their new powers. In that window of lack of control- at least a minute of screen time, SS could have ended the fight as quickly as you or I could snap our fingers.

Norin Radd may have had human-like morals and restrained himself, but Big G definitely had little regard for Earth beyond it being a tasty morsel. If Big G had the option, he'd do so and end Earth's superpowered resistance in seconds. End of Earth, end of story.

And yet, it was never done.

Its very bad writing.

 

[Darth Shoju]

Like I mentioned before, the power scrambling effect that is so tremendously useful that it would have been used early and often in any combat, especially if its something that the SS can do because Galactus can do it. The trailers I've seen indicate that, early on, at least, the victims of the power switch are unable to control their new powers. In that window of lack of control- at least a minute of screen time, SS could have ended the fight as quickly as you or I could snap our fingers.

Norin Radd may have had human-like morals and restrained himself, but Big G definitely had little regard for Earth beyond it being a tasty morsel. If Big G had the option, he'd do so and end Earth's superpowered resistance in seconds. End of Earth, end of story.

And yet, it was never done.

Its very bad writing.

I think what he was saying is that the indication seems to be that the power-switching was some sort of *side-effect* of contact with the Surfer. If there was some reason to believe that SS did it on purpose then I missed it.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I think what he was saying is that the indication seems to be that the power-switching was some sort of *side-effect* of contact with the Surfer. If there was some reason to believe that SS did it on purpose then I missed it.

That's what I'm saying because that's exactly what the trailers have told us(listen to Reed Richards again, because those are his words...side effect).

But how is it bad writing? That doesn't make ANY sense. You're making huge leaps of logic here and ignoring the simple fact that the MOVIES are NOT THE COMICS. The comics are the beggining point, but they are not a bible that is held sacred when ANY of the movies are made. That's not bad writing. That's just how it is.

And this is a TINY thing. Again, if you pay attention to the trailers and clips we've been shown, this power switching doesn't seem to last. (Not that Reed says 'temporarily switch powers'). But not only that, EVERY fight scene we've seen so far the right powers are used...the only one without it shows Johnny COMBINING powers, not switched.

 

[Matchstick]

Like I mentioned before, the power scrambling effect that is so tremendously useful that it would have been used early and often in any combat, especially if its something that the SS can do because Galactus can do it. The trailers I've seen indicate that, early on, at least, the victims of the power switch are unable to control their new powers. In that window of lack of control- at least a minute of screen time, SS could have ended the fight as quickly as you or I could snap our fingers.

Norin Radd may have had human-like morals and restrained himself, but Big G definitely had little regard for Earth beyond it being a tasty morsel. If Big G had the option, he'd do so and end Earth's superpowered resistance in seconds. End of Earth, end of story.

And yet, it was never done.

Its very bad writing.

The thing is though that you could say that about Galactus and the Surfer in any number of ways. There's a million ways that either one of them could have "snapped their fingers" and overpowered earth in a few seconds. "Combat" has nothing to do with it, in a combat the FF would have no chance against Galactus, unless they were all in a comic book.

When Reed holds up the Ultimate Nullifier in his hand and threatens Galatus with it, why doesn't Galactus just paralyze him and take the Nullifier away? Surround him with the power Cosmic, make him unable to move, and then dump him into a black hole? Or just place him in the middle of a sun, permanently paralyzed and inaccessible to everyone, still holding the nullifier. Heck, as he approaches a planet, why doesn't he just paralyze everyone, or sleep them, on the off chance they might not like getting their essences consumed? He's got the power!

Terrax destroys a planet single handedly in Annihilation, there's no reason to believe that the Surfer or certainly Galactus couldn't just wave a hand and turn all the oxygen in the atmosphere to chlorine, or all the water to arsenic (transmutation like that is certainly within Galactus' power). Heck, the Surfer in a fit of pique shuts down all sources of power AROUND THE WORLD in an instant, just a couple days of that would have put the Earth into plenty of a panic to not be able to react to Galactus' arrival.

Surely Galactus could destroy our sun before anyone from Earth could get there. Then all he has to do is wait a bit to have a nice Earthy morsel. Couldn't he start chucking moons at Earth from far off space?

Scrambling superpowers is FAR from the only option Galactus didn't take advantage of when trying to nosh Earth. Yet I don't think of the comics as "very bad writing".