No! No! Baaaaaaad Marvel Comics!

[Dannyalcatraz]

Look at all the successful changes.
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Sorry, but taking something directly from the comic book and putting it onto the screen is just a bad idea.

TheLe, I'm not having a problem with changes that were made for good reasons- better consistency, better on-screen impact, etc.

or, to put it another way (for all those who seem to think that I am):

I'M NOT ASKING FOR STRAIGHT TRANSLATIONS FROM COMICS TO MOVIES!

I thought the visual change to Doctor Octopus was handled quite well, and Spidey's organic web shooters are actually a better idea than the original- after all, if he's mutated enough to gain strength, dexterity, wall-climbing and a 6th sense, why not web spinnerettes?

My issue is with changes that are deleterious to the on-screen product.

This thing we're talking about with the SS actually creates plot holes.

A fan supports the hobby no matter what,

Not if the product is bad.

If WotC produced a 4th edition that required players use only jewel-encrusted solid gold minis costing about $20K apiece, would you play?

not goes into the comic book store and freeloads.

I do no such thing.

I still purchase several titles, not just every one that comes out. I listen to the suggestions of the store staff and other customers to figure out what is still worth buying. The rest I leave behind.

Your opinion of drek is your opinion, but your opinion doesn't matter,

Why, thanks for the insult!

it is what the collective public's opinion thinks that gets how a movie is made.

Yes, a collective opinion derived from a conglomeration of people like myself, like yourself, and many, many others.

Sometimes this is bad, sometimes this is good.

Public opinion says they want a comic relief moment in the movies.

There is nothing wrong with comic relief.

Again, they can't possibly introduce.. say the skrul, silver surfer, galactis and scarlet witch in one movie unless you want Batman Forever.

Scarlet Witch was quite doable within this movie as a patient with a mysterious malady sending her powers awry...which would also provide a plot hook for an eventual Avenger's film/TV treatment, or using her within another X-Men movie. And it makes much more sense than some contagious randomization of powers due to Johnny Storm making contact with SS.

And I didn't ask for SW + SS + Galactus + Super Skrull. My point was that if they wanted to do a Super Skrull type plotline, they should have done a movie centered around a Skrull scouting expediton and the Super Skrull.

Too many characters, as you rightly imply, could ruin the film. Needless complexity has killed many a film.

But even so, comic book movies often contain references to the bigger world of characters beyond the confines of the main plot & its characters. As I recall, Kitty Pride was hinted at in the first X-Men movie. In the first (modern) Batman movie, the character Harvey Dent (the attorney who would eventually become Two-Face) was portrayed by Billy Dee Williams (and yes, I'm ticked that they chose a caucasian actor to later portray Two-Face having already established the character's race in the earlier film). Each had only a few seconds of screen time.

Even comic books do this- Venom didn't show up immediately after Spidey ditched the symbiote. While it quickly found Eddie Brock, it took a year for Marvel to bring that revelation to light in the form of Venom going after Spidey.

A lot ofp eople thought sandman/venom would work great and it turned into a fiasco.

I wasn't one of the fans of the concept- again, too many ingredients and you don't have time to get a good, satisfying taste of any of them.

Have you ever seen Chef Gordon Ramsey's tv shows? There's one in which he rescues failing restaraunts. In one episode, he asked the restaraunt's chef to make a Broccoli soup, and laid out about 50 ingredients from which the chef could choose- and that man chose to use 15 of them.

Ramsey used Broccoli, salt, pepper and water.

In blind taste tests with the restaraunt's staff & owner, Ramsey's soup won 100% of the time.

Sandman or Venom would have been sufficient a challenge to carry the movie. Personally, I'd lean towards the former, leaving Venom to a later movie.

Someone probalby thought Nick Cage as Ghost Rider was a great idea, though we havn't found that guy.

I didn't see that one either- it was out of the theaters before I had a chance to go- but I thought casting him in that role was a decent idea. After all, he is one of the biggest known fans of the genre- he's dropped serious dough at auctions, and sold some serious collectibles when auctioning off some of his own stuff- and a decent actor to boot.

Still, every actor has a few clunkers on his resume.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

This thing we're talking about with the SS actually creates plot holes.

How does this create plotholes within the movie when evidently it is part of the plot?

What I'm seeing you saying is that it creates plotholes when compared to the history of the characters in the comics, but as the movie version of the Silver Surfer is essentially a blank slate, I'm not seeing where this screws things up?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

First, a clarification of an incomplete thought:

A fan supports the hobby no matter what,

Not if the product is bad.

If WotC produced a 4th edition that required players use only jewel-encrusted solid gold minis costing about $20K apiece, would you play?

A fan truly supports the hobby by supporting changes that better the hobby or maintaining the status quo of good aspects of the hobby, not by supporting bad elements of the hobby.

After all, I'm a big RPG hobbyist, with more than 100 systems in my collection, but I've never even been tempted to obtain a copy of F.A.T.A.L.

How does this create plotholes within the movie when evidently it is part of the plot?

A plothole, by definition, is an omission from or addtion to a plot that creates at least as many problems with the storyline as it solves, like why people with perfectly functional phones or cellphones still insist on investigating the mysterious noise in the basement with no functioning lights...

Here you have an occurrance- the powerswitch- that would be used as a weapon by any rational being, even if it were unintentional.

And furthermore, it is an occurrance that results in enough confusion in the victims that the fight should be over. Sue's fiery flight into the heavens is uncontrolled- she's a big flaming baloon to be shot from the sky. Johnny is virtually trampled by the average joes and janes of the city when he goes invisible instead of flying- SS should just zap the area and be done with it.

But wait- Norrin Radd has morals!

Yes, but they're compromised- Norrin Radd agreed to become Big G's herald in order to spare his planet...and he knows that Big G's preferred meal is a planet with intelligent life. The humans of Earth are as good as dead if Big G actually does what he's supposed to. So what if a few bite the bullet ahead of his arrival- heck, it may even be a preferrable fate.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

A plothole, by definition, is an omission from or addtion to a plot that creates at least as many problems with the storyline as it solves, like why people with perfectly functional phones or cellphones still insist on investigating the mysterious noise in the basement with no functioning lights...

See, the thing is, without having seen the movie or read the script- how can you know that the power switching is an omission or addition that creates problems?

Here you have an occurrance- the powerswitch- that would be used as a weapon by any rational being, even if it were unintentional.

And, having seen all of- what- 5 minutes of the movie you already know that the Silver Surfer doesn't somehow take advantage of the power switching? Intentional or not?

But wait- Norrin Radd has morals!

So- basically, now your complaint is the very thing that is the foundation of the actual storyline in the original Surfer/FF storyline? That Norrin's deep-seated morality is awakened and he decides to turn against his master? Because that is pretty much the core nature of the Silver Surfer throughout his history in comics.

Who's to say it's not that awakening of his morality (again, from the comics, via Alicia Masters- though I'm not sure if it will be her or Sue who is responsible as yet- having not seen the movie) that makes him decide to- say- not take advantage of the power switching, or to switch them back or something?

Frankly, I didn't care much for the last FF movie (it had its good moments, but it had a lot of things I didn't like) and am not personally all that hopeful for this one, but I also recognize that I can't possibly know how good or bad it's going to be without having seen or read it.

 

[papastebu]

This may be the stupidest thread in the history of the internet.

There must be stupider ones. This one talks about comics. That has to count for something.

A) Its a movie. It can do whatever the deuce it wants with the FF property.

QFT.

B) You haven't seen the movie, and have no idea why certain things happen.

I'm in the try it before you knock it mindset, myself.

C) The power swapping idea comes from the current comics and has nothing at all to do with the Silver Surfer, though it may in the movie. Its also, as has been said, a Super Skrull reference.

I like the reference, but why give it to THAT one person. I'd rather see more of Jessica Alba, blue contacts, faux-blonde hair, and... ALL that.

D) Complaining about both the movie deviating from the source material and the movie being illogical is ridiculous, as the FF (and most superhero) comics have barely make any logical sense on a good day.

Why does Scott Summers still have a head? Why wasn't the world destroyed by supers getting the hang of their powers, long before Galactus got wind of it.

E) I'm not defending the movie out of enjoyment. The first one was terrible and I have no urge to see this one. But yeesh, take a deep breath.

Sometimes, it is fun to argue.

 

[DonTadow]

Danny, you're quite wrong.

Please don't think I was singling you out and saying that your opinion doesn't matters from a personal point of view.

It is as a rabid fanboy, your opinion on how the movie is made doesnt matter. Mine doesnt either. It's what the collective, non collecting, non reading, comic book public wants that gets in. Sometimes it works for the best and sometimes its utter crap.

 

[DonTadow]

Danny,

My apologies, Boy were you right. I am glad I'm not a big marvel fan. I'd be more irked if i was. I'll leave the rest of my remarks for the spoiler thread.

 

[Tarthalion]

I absolutely cannot believe that this thread is still going.

I mean honestly people...it's done get over it. You will either like it or not. Period. Whining about it on the internet for three pages is pretty sad.

 

[Silver Moon]

I absolutely cannot believe that this thread is still going.

I mean honestly people...it's done get over it. You will either like it or not. Period. Whining about it on the internet for three pages is pretty sad.

Johnny Storm has been dispatched to bring back the Ultimate Nullifier, to then be used on this thread.

 

[DonTadow]

This thread was not "official" until today now that hte movie has come out, and danny was right. It was a good movie, right up until the last 30 minutes and the swapping thing didn't make sense nor did the galactus/ surfer angle. It sucked because it was 1hour of build up for nothing.

And wow, Alba can not act. Man, the audience chuckled everytime she pretended to be invisible woman. Why on earth was an older woman not cast. Reed looks like a child molester in hte movie.