No spell resistance vs. Orb spells? Why?

[KarinsDad]

Why bother with feats at all?

I think feats are important in balance discussions.

It is not just the raw damage that has to be considered, it is also how that damage can be boosted.

Maximimizing Fireball yields 30 or 60 points. Maximizing the Orbs yields 90 points (180 for a critical, 0 for a miss).

 

[Rystil Arden]

I think feats are important in balance discussions.

It is not just the raw damage that has to be considered, it is also how that damage can be boosted.

Maximimizing Fireball yields 30 or 60 points. Maximizing the Orbs yields 90 points (180 for a critical, 0 for a miss).

If we considered giving Evan and Connie both more feats, it is possible to build Connie up with just a few more feats so that she will not only kill the Dragon on Round 1, but, by virtue of Repeat Spell, will kill it again on Round 2, just in case it survived the first time through some sort of miracle.

 

[Notmousse]

No, I'm not. Read the example again: Connie and Evan are identical save for Arcane Thesis and Easy/Practical Metamagic vs Spell Penetration and Greater. However, both of them have all the metamagic that a reasonable Evoker and Conjurer would have, thus balancing.

These 'reasonable' metamagic feats aren't documented anywhere. Like math class when trying to convince people it's 'show your work or it doesn't count'.

Aside from the math... While dropping multiple metamagic spells in a round is a great way to nova, I find it a much less effective when going through multiple encounters a day.

 

[Rystil Arden]

These 'reasonable' metamagic feats aren't documented anywhere. Like math class when trying to convince people it's 'show your work or it doesn't count'.

Aside from the math... While dropping multiple metamagic spells in a round is a great way to nova, I find it a much less effective when going through multiple encounters a day.

Yes they are. I just did a post sweep for why the feats came up. Do I need to do a post sweep for the metamagic list now as well?

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I think feats are important in balance discussions.

It is not just the raw damage that has to be considered, it is also how that damage can be boosted.

Maximimizing Fireball yields 30 or 60 points. Maximizing the Orbs yields 90 points (180 for a critical, 0 for a miss).

Maximized Empowered Scorching Ray (same level spell as maximized orb) yields 108 points (216 on criticals, 0 for misses). Thus the orb spells are underdamaged compared to an SRD-only option.

Of course realistically you have to get 3 criticals instead of 1, and Fireball is a lower level spell than an Orb, so really what do these numbers prove?

DS

 

[Rystil Arden]

Maximized Empowered Scorching Ray (same level spell as maximized orb) yields 108 points (216 on criticals, 0 for misses). Thus the orb spells are underdamaged compared to an SRD-only option.

Of course realistically you have to get 3 criticals instead of 1, and Fireball is a lower level spell than an Orb, so really what do these numbers prove?

DS

Actually, Maximising Empowered Scorching Ray gives you 93. Remember, Empower does not stack with maximise. Of course, Maximise is much worse for its price than Empower, so I'm not surprised that Empowered Maximised Scorching Ray beats Maximised Orbs barely. It doesn't matter--the rays allow SR.

 

[PallidPatience]

And the three (or so) rays will each suffer from energy resistance, thus granting an advantage for the single orb.

 

[James McMurray]

So change the target of choice from a Dragon to a Ghost Dragon of a younger age category (to maintain the same CR). Now the orb is utterly useless.

How about picking a creature to target that doesn't take 150% damage from the orb? LOL

 

[Notmousse]

Do I need to do a post sweep for the metamagic list now as well?

Yeah.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Ah, see I was hoping that you would go look for them rather than make me find them and post again, but here's a cut-and-paste job:

We can say that any other feats will be taken by the other and thus cancel each other out (although I assumed both had all the metamagic they needed, so at least Energy Sub, Empower, Maximize, Quicken, Twin, and Energy Admixture (the last useful against Energy Resistance, since it doesn't shoot twice like Twin))

Really the Orb person doesn't need Energy Sub as much as the Evoker, since Orbs come in all sorts of delicious flavours, but I gave it to both anyway.