Nytmare
David Jose
You jerk. I wasted the last 3 days meticulously crafting what you spat out in probably a half hour.
Non-lethal damage
- Thread starter Zaukrie
- Start date
You jerk. I wasted the last 3 days meticulously crafting what you spat out in probably a half hour.
What makes you think I haven't? I find your tone insulting and you reasoning simplistic at best. When fighting with a sword in real life, there's also a chance for a one-swing kill and each hit causes "damage". For eaxample, when your sword slides along the blade of your opponent while parrying, the disengage leaves a chance for a cut, usually a smaller cut. Skill with the blade optimizes or minimizes this. You don't just bang blades until one guy is tired enough to make a major mistake. Good swordsmen create and take advantage of smaller mistakes. It's not just waiting for a coup de grace.
Well, unless fighting with a two-hander. Not much finesse there. One-handed weapons are a different matter though.
ExploderWizard
Hero
I would say that a master of kenjutsu would disagree with the assertion that fighting with a two-handed weapon lacks finesse.
LoL, true. I was thinking more on the Great Axe, 6' bladed swords.
For other forms of "combat" where damage is dealt look at boxing and football. If it were merely stamina they would be at it again two days later but the physical damage they take requires longer healing.
Skyscraper
Adventurer
In my games, i ask players to state before they attack if they want their attacks to be non-lethal. Otherwise, the default assumption is they're trying for lethal damage. They often choose non-lethal against humanoids.
If they choose non-lethal, i ask them to explain how they go about it. Blunt arrows, magic weaved in a specific way, hitting with the flat or the pummel of the sword, whatever is fine with me as long as they come up with an explanation that makes sense, generally. I like to say that if they can't come up with a good explanation on how an attack may be non-lethal, then perhaps their PC can't come up with a good way to knock out an enemy in combat either
For a fireball as with any other attack, i would think that the damage is either lethal or non lethal for all targets in the area of effect. You roll a single damage number for everyone after all, i would think that the damage is the same for all and the same type for all. How can a fireball be non-lethal? Well, perhaps the blast is very concentrated and simply throws everyone to the ground with its intensity, as opposed to actually burning. I think that allowing the fireball (or any area of effect power) to do different damage types to different targets provides it with too much flexiblity.
Sky
If they choose non-lethal, i ask them to explain how they go about it. Blunt arrows, magic weaved in a specific way, hitting with the flat or the pummel of the sword, whatever is fine with me as long as they come up with an explanation that makes sense, generally. I like to say that if they can't come up with a good explanation on how an attack may be non-lethal, then perhaps their PC can't come up with a good way to knock out an enemy in combat either
For a fireball as with any other attack, i would think that the damage is either lethal or non lethal for all targets in the area of effect. You roll a single damage number for everyone after all, i would think that the damage is the same for all and the same type for all. How can a fireball be non-lethal? Well, perhaps the blast is very concentrated and simply throws everyone to the ground with its intensity, as opposed to actually burning. I think that allowing the fireball (or any area of effect power) to do different damage types to different targets provides it with too much flexiblity.
Sky
Intentional lethal attacks can result in temporary damage. An axe blow may be blocked by your shield, but it still can wrench your shoulder, bash your shield arm into your head, or simply raise your level of panic so that you lose focus on your training and experience in combat survival. All of these can be represented in a successful hit, deducting hit points, with no real physical wounds present.
WalterKovacs
First Post
Skyscraper: Do you track lethal/non-lethal seperately? If someone has any non-lethal damage on them, are they knocked out unless the lethal damage equals their total HP? In which case, you pretty much need to hit only 1 or 2 "non-lethal" shots and have the rest be lethal. Or, does only the "last" hit count to whether it's lethal or not?
Just wondering. I'm guessing that part of 4e simplification was not needing to track two seperate ammounts. Also, somone who is below zero, but NOT at negative bloodied can be stabilized, and therefore the "lethal" damage can be made to be non-lethal so long as you prevent them from dying. Rarely will a single attack deal enough damage to bloody someone in one shot ... so it is equally unlikely that you'd outright slay a creature with a single shot [if you assume they, like PCs, don't die until negative bloodied]. It would make it impossible to knock out minions though, since they have only 1 HP.
Just wondering. I'm guessing that part of 4e simplification was not needing to track two seperate ammounts. Also, somone who is below zero, but NOT at negative bloodied can be stabilized, and therefore the "lethal" damage can be made to be non-lethal so long as you prevent them from dying. Rarely will a single attack deal enough damage to bloody someone in one shot ... so it is equally unlikely that you'd outright slay a creature with a single shot [if you assume they, like PCs, don't die until negative bloodied]. It would make it impossible to knock out minions though, since they have only 1 HP.
Skyscraper
Adventurer
I think it is mostly the player's description which is not logical here. If the player wants to knock out an opponent and he described his attacks as "slicing you 42 times with my sword and [you] bleeding profusely from every orifice" until that creature is knocked unconscious, then I think that the player needs to rethink the ABC of storytelling.
D&D is not about players trying to push the DM into a dead-end. It is about cooperative storytelling IMO. The mechanics of non-lethal damage have been simplified. Now it's up to the players and DM to work together to create scenes that work towards what they want to achieve.
Sky
Skyscraper
Adventurer
No, i don't track lethal/non-lethal, i keep a single HP count for creatures. As long as the target of the attacks remains above zero HP, damage is of no particular type. It's only the last blow that counts to determine whether the target is killed or knocked unconscious. How we play this is that if a player tells me that his PC attacks for non-lethal damage at any time before he hits for the last blow (the one that brings the targe below 0 HP), then we're fine. Usually players declare at the outset of battle whether they want to hit for lethal or non-lethal, but sometimes they change in the middle of battle too.
This being said, we don't describe most "intermediate" hits as being gut-wrenching. In other words, each time a PC hits a target, he doesn't necessarily drive his sword through his gut until it protrudes through his back with intestines hanging from the sword's tip. Quite on the contrary, we've fully embraced the entire parry/morale/fatigue/minor cuts approach to combat, where only the last blow might be a gut-wrenching one. The resuilt being that a player changing from lethal to non-lethal in the middle of battle makes a bit more sense (though it could still work even if the target is "really" wounded).
What i don't allow is a player asking me retroactively that a blow be non-lethal when he never said so before and the target is already killed by his final blow.
Sky
I've blown out a knee, sprained ankles, separated a shoulder, etc. These are real, physical, bodily damage and possible results of combat.
