Non-lethal damage

[Skyscraper]

Skyscraper: Do you track lethal/non-lethal seperately? If someone has any non-lethal damage on them, are they knocked out unless the lethal damage equals their total HP? In which case, you pretty much need to hit only 1 or 2 "non-lethal" shots and have the rest be lethal. Or, does only the "last" hit count to whether it's lethal or not?

No, i don't track lethal/non-lethal, i keep a single HP count for creatures. As long as the target of the attacks remains above zero HP, damage is of no particular type. It's only the last blow that counts to determine whether the target is killed or knocked unconscious. How we play this is that if a player tells me that his PC attacks for non-lethal damage at any time before he hits for the last blow (the one that brings the targe below 0 HP), then we're fine. Usually players declare at the outset of battle whether they want to hit for lethal or non-lethal, but sometimes they change in the middle of battle too.

This being said, we don't describe most "intermediate" hits as being gut-wrenching. In other words, each time a PC hits a target, he doesn't necessarily drive his sword through his gut until it protrudes through his back with intestines hanging from the sword's tip. Quite on the contrary, we've fully embraced the entire parry/morale/fatigue/minor cuts approach to combat, where only the last blow might be a gut-wrenching one. The resuilt being that a player changing from lethal to non-lethal in the middle of battle makes a bit more sense (though it could still work even if the target is "really" wounded).

What i don't allow is a player asking me retroactively that a blow be non-lethal when he never said so before and the target is already killed by his final blow.

Sky

 

[Skyscraper]

Skyscraper: Do you track lethal/non-lethal seperately? If someone has any non-lethal damage on them, are they knocked out unless the lethal damage equals their total HP? In which case, you pretty much need to hit only 1 or 2 "non-lethal" shots and have the rest be lethal. Or, does only the "last" hit count to whether it's lethal or not?

No, i don't track lethal/non-lethal, i keep a single HP count for creatures. As long as the target of the attacks remains above zero HP, damage is of no particular type. It's only the last blow that counts to determine whether the target is killed or knocked unconscious. How we play this is that if a player tells me that his PC attacks for non-lethal damage at any time before he hits for the last blow (the one that brings the targe below 0 HP), then we're fine. Usually players declare at the outset of battle whether they want to hit for lethal or non-lethal, but sometimes they change in the middle of battle too.

This being said, we don't describe most "intermediate" hits as being gut-wrenching. In other words, each time a PC hits a target, he doesn't necessarily drive his sword through his gut until it protrudes through his back with intestines hanging from the sword's tip. Quite on the contrary, we've fully embraced the entire parry/morale/fatigue/minor cuts approach to combat, where only the last blow might be a gut-wrenching one. The resuilt being that a player changing from lethal to non-lethal in the middle of battle makes a bit more sense (though it could still work even if the target is "really" wounded).

What i don't allow is a player asking me retroactively that a blow be non-lethal when he never said so before and the target is already killed by his final blow.

Sky

 

[WhatGravitas]

I've blown out a knee, sprained ankles, separated a shoulder, etc. These are real, physical, bodily damage and possible results of combat.

But they're not lethal. Nobody says that a knocked out person feels well or isn't hurt at all (in fact, most people knocked out in real life will suffer at least a concussion or something similar), opponents knocked out that way are hurt and wounded - enough to make them pass out, but not enough to actually kill them.

Cheers, LT.

 

[DracoSuave]

I've blown out a knee, sprained ankles, separated a shoulder, etc. These are real, physical, bodily damage and possible results of combat.

Any of those could plausibly be the sorts of effects could be considered parts of lethal combat, leading up to the final blow.

And the fact you've survived proves that they can also be in non-lethal combat as well.

QED.

 

[77IM]

I use a system very similar to Skyscraper's. I don't track lethal vs non-lethal damage, but distinguish between lethal and non-lethal attacks: if you drop an enemy to 0 with a non-lethal attack, they are unconscious, and if you drop them with a lethal attack, they are dead.

The catch is that most weapons and spells deal half-damage if you attempt to use them in a non-lethal manner. The exceptions are things like clubs, staffs, punches, bar stools, etc. that seem like they could cause blunt trauma without cracking too many bones. (This is based on "action-movie physics" so the fact that a master staff-fighter can split a skull in twain is irrelevant.)

The reason I instituted this house rule is because otherwise, every single encounter, even a life-and-death struggle of epic proportions, would end with the PCs interrogating some prisoners. The half-damage rule means that capturing foes is generally harder than killing them, but is by no means impossible, especially if the group focuses on that goal; having prisoners to interrogate now has a moderate cost associated with it. If your players are more action-oriented and only capture foes occasionally, then the normal rules (non-lethal knockout blows deal full damage) should work just fine.

-- 77IM

 

[Danceofmasks]

That doesn't make capturing foes any more inconvenient for players (like me) who memorise exactly how many hp has been lost by everything on the board.

 

[Herschel]

Any of those could plausibly be the sorts of effects could be considered parts of lethal combat, leading up to the final blow.

And the fact you've survived proves that they can also be in non-lethal combat as well.

QED.

I've survived gaping cuts and a concussion too. Oh, but wait, if a wound was treated/healed it wasn't actual damage, by your reasoning.

 

[Tale]

I've survived gaping cuts and a concussion too. Oh, but wait, if a wound was treated/healed it wasn't actual damage, by your reasoning.

What power did that to you? How much HP did it take off?

 

[DreamChaser]

I've survived gaping cuts and a concussion too. Oh, but wait, if a wound was treated/healed it wasn't actual damage, by your reasoning.

I think this is the real reason that there is no distinction...no damage (especially in D&D world) can be considered "lethal" until the person has actually died...until that occurs, it is just damage. Even IRL, those wounds that WILL DEFINITELY IN TIME kill a person (like a pierced spleen or broken spine above a certain point) nearly always incapacitate them as well. Those few exceptions are exactly that: exceptions.

A person is either fine, injured, unconscious, or dead.

Thus, the only blow that matters is the last one and / or the actions immediately afterword.

DC

 

[Hypersmurf]

I've survived gaping cuts and a concussion too.

And let's say you were in the middle of a fight when they happened.

Would you say the concussion made it easier for a determined attacker to kill you, if that was his intent?

Would you say the concussion made it easier for a determined attacker to knock you out, if that was his intent?

-Hyp.